Path of Exile, yet died?

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Re: Path of Exile, yet died?

Post by Brother Laz on Sat May 11, 2013 2:05 am

I think LoL taught people that fighting mindless AI is boring, and WoW taught people that single player grinding is boring.

ARPGs can go one of two ways:
- Minmax, high difficulty, challenge centric, perhaps permadeath.
- Social, massively multiplayer, not too hard.

But people are no longer satisfied with autistic grinding in instanced maps.

PoE is the SC2 of ARPGs: it is objectively good, but perhaps the world has moved on?
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Re: Path of Exile, yet died?

Post by shrubbery on Sun May 26, 2013 11:33 am

I like PoE alot, my main concern is that when you level up, you get a passive skillpoint that like adds 8%life or something, and you just don't notice it. I don't really feel like i'm all that much stronger.

I love the currency/crafting system, and the races are just so cool, its the first game where I see such a concept (i don't know if it is the first?), and the cutthroat races are just so much fun.

@laz isn't starcraft 2 still huge? LoL might be bigger, but there's still 35k people watching SC2 on twitch atm

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Re: Path of Exile, yet died?

Post by Lionel2b on Mon May 27, 2013 1:10 am

@shrubbery wrote:I like PoE alot

That's all fine and dandy, but will PoE be successful enough to financially continue? How many people are playing the game, and more importantly, spending money on it? I've never seen a game where so many people I know have spent that much time on it, yet so little money.

Don't get me wrong, I love PoE. It's a mature, complex, and rewarding game. I play a lot, whether it be races, hardcore, or softcore. But already the population seems to have shrunk many times over, and the people I do have contact with aren't spending money on the game (I usually give the devs $20 a month, but I don't even want to buy anything from their micro-transaction shop).

Anyway, not to be all gloom and doom- if anyone wants to group feel free to add me under "Monty". I have a 82 in hardcore that I just completely respecced to range since melee was too slow/dangerous at running maps. I also do a fair amount of races, trying to get #1 in class (I was close today, got #2 as Duelist).


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Re: Path of Exile, yet died?

Post by maskedmartyr on Mon May 27, 2013 10:34 pm

Everyone considers testing time for schools as the potential death stroke of games, and alot of people don't even associate that fact when the population "mysteriously dwindles". Personally I'm waiting for some of the new patches to come out which I've said to myself occassionally beforehand and ended up playing. Admittedly PoE is a very hardcore esque game and they're changing it somewhat to put more choice in the players hands with the new party-drop system, and theyre adding some more depth to the crafting system.

Frankly I think they underestimated server costs compared to population and didn't account for sales accordingly. I don't think this one particular fact is going to sink the whole ship though.

As far as actual coverage goes on the game it could use some more exposure possibly when they release the next act or even beforehand, people who left the game probably have no idea how PoE functions right now. I'm sure if everyone knew melee got a bunch of support gems and new crazy shit is happening to add depth to the game without taking any bit of depth away people would love to hear that, but so far GGG keeps things a little vague outside of the forums and twitter. Hell, the merchandise they are making barely got mentioned on their own website.
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Re: Path of Exile, yet died?

Post by taem on Tue May 28, 2013 12:35 am

They must have some serious financial backers. We'll see what GGG does when funds start withering up and it's time to deliver something the people actually want/need. I made this same argument with donations on these forums and I think it's a valid one. People don't want P2W, but at the end of the day, there's only so much you'd be willing to pay for as a player without seeing any benefit to your character or in-game experience. I think developers vastly under-estimate this quandary and assume their most ravenous followers will purchase new skins and sound effects, but trust me, that won't pay the bills at the end of the day!

What I think would be most successful would be a system where you can purchase in game "gold" to spend on items as you see fit, and are able to trade with other players. So long as you can't take that "gold" out of the system, then the feds won't come crashing your party for fear of tax evasion and money laundering. Also to compliment this, an out of game, on-line trading system (like the old d2jsp had) where you could make micro-transactions to buy other player's items, but there would be a small "fee" involved - maybe a couple pennies per transaction. This would be the perfect system for making sure it's the players finding items and adding them to the system, not the game developers creating items out of thin air and selling it - this would keep the current value of items intact (rng baby) and generate revenue for everyone involved. Stupid developers who don't take advantage of this type of system.
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Re: Path of Exile, yet died?

Post by Splift on Thu May 30, 2013 2:00 am

I don't think poe is in financial trouble. Last I heard there was just under 500 "diamond supporters" (people who donated $1000 or more) and that adds up to about half a mil right there. Then factor in that each one of those will probably buy lots of inventory tabs and visual add ons from the cash shop. Then factor in just how rare it is to find someone willing to contribute $1000 to a game. Id say for every one diamond supporter, they probably have thousands if not tens of thousands of people contributing $20 or so here and there. Not to mention that they had several other levels of supporter, some of which involved spending hundreds of dollars and probably had tons of those as well (probably more than diamond).

Of course the cash flow has probably slowed down now that the game is out and people don't feel as much hype to put $$$ into it and the question then becomes how can they keep the cash flow high without becoming pay to win? Right off the bat I would say more impressive pets and character skins are the first and easiest step. Right now the pay shop visual add ons are kinda underwhelming, aside from the skill skins.

And to touch on the future/present of arpgs again, I feel they are doing fine right now. Torchlight and d3 are very popular despite the hate that d3 got from many d2 fans. Are they sitting at the peak of gaming popularity? No, but that does not mean they are dead. IMO both games made many large mistakes and are still very popular in spite of those mistakes and flaws. The worst thing now is that there is nothing new in the immediate horizon for the genre (that I know of at least). Our best hope is that blizzard will get their shit together and improve d3 (very good chance of this, blizz does not give up on their games and improves them for many many years after release)or torchlight 2 mods.
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Re: Path of Exile, yet died?

Post by Brother Laz on Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:44 pm

I think the best F2P model is one with a grind to broaden your options, and then microtransactions to cut out the grind. A grind that gives you straight up better stuff is problematic because "P2W", but a grind that adds more choices (LoL: champions) can be shortcut without consumer backlash.

Additionally, if you can create a Barbie effect and then sell cosmetics, you'll do great (as opposed to grimdark games that don't feel welcoming so you don't buy cosmetics - Hellgate London, meet floor).

Oh, and if you're doing cosmetics, there has to be a way to stuff them down people's throats.

My opinion about PoE - it's a game by and for people suffering from Diablo 2 nostalgia, because it is better in every respect than Diablo 2 other than not benefiting from rose tinted glasses. The dreary atmosphere is probably a mistake though: in a time when companies go to lowercase to appear more friendly and every popular game is cartoonish to some degree, grimdark seems like a backwards choice because you're missing out on the escapist crowd. But that's probably the marketeer in me talking and I don't think these people have designed the game with maximum revenue in mind. When you go into the games industry with market experts under the arm aiming to become the next Zynga or Rovio, are you really living the dream?...
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Re: Path of Exile, yet died?

Post by Splift on Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:56 am

I agree with your points about p2w/f2p. Recently GGG said they got 2.5 million from donations and microtransactions (they were sorta grey as to if they had other sources). While that may not be flat out poor, for a company with a fair amount of staff that has been working on the game for 6 or 7 years its far from rich. A huge amount of that $$$ is probably from hype and once people start to get used to/bored of the game those funds will fall off fast if they can't keep it fresh. The microtransaction options are very meh, imo the tabs are really the only things that are tempting to get unless you get into the game in such a heavy way that you feel you need to make your skill or head look slightly different.

Maybe i'm just fked up but poe does not seem that grim/dark to me (perhaps the music is what is lacking). Diablo 2 wasn't very grim/dark as well (and is somewhat cartoony) imo and its diablo 1 that was the darkest and grimmest. Imo there is still a huge audience of people who prefer real or dark graphics over cartoony, maybe even a larger audience for the real/dark (think cod etc). I remember when Zelda WW came out there was a huge backlash over the cartoony graphics despite it being one of the best in terms of gameplay and similar things happened to ff9. I do agree that people who play dark games are probably less likely to want to dress their chars up.

I still flat out disagree about poe being flat out better than d2. Maybe I do have nostalgia glasses fused onto my face that I cannot remove for the game.... but I wouldnt be surprised if the number of people playing d2 to this very day still competes with or surpasses poe and the fact that loving d2 is one thing that every arpg player has in common. Maybe if you look at it from a game designers point of view and make a check list poe seems to win in every regard... but there has to be more to it than that. Its hard to put my finger on it, but the best way I could is to say that sometimes games that have the best of every category of feature fall flat on their face while on the other hand, rough, flawed, low budget games made in some dudes basement can become insanely popular. Diablo2 just has some sort of charm that is hard to recreate. I have seen multiple adults who have never found interest in a game in their life get addicted after scrounging around the blood moor for a few mins. When I think about the mindless grinding I did in d2 for retarded amounts of time without getting bored somehow.... and when I tried anything even remotely similar in poe I could not handle it. I am probably not the only one... while the amount of people playing d2 grew and grew to ridicuous levels and held them for insane amounts of time, the developers of poe have already resorted to a plea that I can't help but find somewhat pathetic.... asking their players on the news bulletin to tell their friends to come back to the game now that a new patch is out.
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Re: Path of Exile, yet died?

Post by taem on Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:16 am

When I think about the mindless grinding I did in d2 for retarded amounts of time without getting bored somehow....

Welcome to the world of phone games (i.e. Candy Crush, amongst many others), cheap to produce, and earns millions. Which is why Micro$haft tried so hard with Win7, because they knew this was coming: http://www.cio-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=020002GO98OC

Yes, more people in the world now have internet access, and there are more phones with internet access in the entire world then there are PC's or consoles combined. Thus, the real money will be in phone based apps, so you better start learning some C++ and Java for the Android SDK if you want to make any real money, because my bet is within the next 5-10 years, game companies will shift their focus to where the real audience is (i.e. where the real money is).
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Re: Path of Exile, yet died?

Post by Splift on Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:16 am

Meh just skimmed the article,but right off the bat I can say the reason is because using the internet and data xfers on a smart phone is ridiculously overpriced. Stories of people spending thousands a month without even realizing it are extremely common. Also note that from what I see it only talks about US numbers. Countries that aren't as rich as them would not eat the overpriced bullshit that phone companies in the us and ESPECIALLY Canada (I hate how complacent my country is about getting raped with costs) throw our way.

I still don't see "the real money"(good money still but not the money to pay for a highrise downtown somewhere full of staff) being in phone based apps though... I may not know a ton about it, but it seems to be a nickel and dime industry to me where the games sell for like $2 or whatever. Also the games that seem to be the most popular tend to have the quality and depth of quarter arcade games from the 90's. sure there may be the odd addicting game that makes millions...... but the pc/console industry makes games that sell millions of $60 games, big diff there.
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