A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

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A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by Roflknife on Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:41 am

going to finish later...

As a closed beta gold supporter who has leveled multiple characters to level 70 I want to start off saying I highly admire GGG for competing against Blizzard and that the devs are great guys. However despite interesting innovations like the skill tree, POE still has a long way to go. After months of D3 and POE being out simultaneously, PoE (currently) is as unworthy of being D2's successor as D3.

Below are grievances many closed/open beta supporters have with PoE:


  • RNG dominating multiple aspects of PoE's progress
    From start to endgame the major way to improve gear is randomized crafting or rare loot. Its not only gearing-up that's RNG dominated though, as the best farming areas (maps) are monster loot. The map's mods are ALSO involve RNG and require significant wealth investment. In most ARPGs, RNG is usually limited to endgame crafting, as a money pit for rich players. Farming later areas should also be limited by character strength, not wealth like PoE.

    PoE’s current system of requiring wealth to farm creates a positive feedback loop where rich players get richer… while poor players are butt-raped.

    PoE makes RNG too important, too early. RNG is RNG, but less painful for rich players who can bear the brunt of bad luck. Their wealth acts as insurance. Poor players have no such protection. For every player who orgasms at their 2-fuse 6L there's 100’s of people bankrupted and screwed trying to 5L, without a way to progress by farming or improving gear.

    This leads to...

  • Hoarding and progress starvation
    Due to RNG’s risks, players rarely craft themselves. Unlike MXL that uses different crafting ingredients for early and lategame items, all crafting in POE uses the same ingredients. Consequently players rarely craft (IF AT ALL!) until, neutering one of PoE’s greatest promises over D3.

    As players rarely craft, they resort to trading.

  • Path of the Exiled Merchant Prince
    PoE is balanced around trading, yet GGG refuses to implement an Auction House, regarding excessive trading as a result of an AH, not a symptom of poor game design. The AH merely makes trading easier. The real REASON for excessive trading is inability to find/craft useful gear. Why do you think Blizzard is removing D3’s AH? Because they are introducing PERSONALISED LOOT, giving players the items they need without making them wealthier.

    It’s always ironic to see PoE’s QQommunity hating on the AH despite using poe.xyz, an external and poor substitute for an AH.
    Another excuse is "we want human interaction!". Here’s 'human interaction' for you guys.

    "WTS G0SU GG GODLEE ITAM"
    "Hi, how much for it?"
    "off3r?"
    "Umm…. I’m not sure can u tell me?"
    "offar or fuck of!"
    "2 ex?"
    "…"
    "Hi are still here?"
    "FUCK you n00b lowball shitscum, mewted"

  • Misleading challenge
    Incongruous difficulty spikes appear without warning. One moment you are pwning Dock Wraiths then the next moment 1-shot by LMP Voidbearers. I like challenges, but instantly dying to ordinary non-elite non-boss monsters after feeling godlike is jarring. The challenge feels unnatural and cheap, like PoE has deceived you on its difficulty. If GGG wants to make PoE hard, they should increase OVERALL difficulty and smooth out unexpected spikes.

    PS: Using Arctic armor against Voidbearers is a “cheese tactic”. Leveling a single gem for one monster is silly, and against GGG’s aim for “deep character customization”.


  • False difficulty
    Have you read “Design Anti-Patterns” by Zileas? It is a deeply insightful article into good game difficulty design. Its something GGG needs to read, badly.
    http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=293417

    Most PoE ‘challenges’ have no counterplay, take 0 skill to beat, or are incomprehensible without checking the Wiki (Snake Pierce!). One notable exception is Vaal Oversoul's smashes and lightning beams.s

  • Boring Gameplay
    Gameplay is sluggish and boring. Its like the monsters and I are swimming through jelly. This is partially because most skills are boring (fireball, nova, cleave etc) or poorly designed and unviable (incinerate, searing bond etc). This is partly the result of the gem system though.
    The skill gem idea is something that looks good on paper but dosen't work out.
    There are 2 MAJOR problems

    kalsifer wrote:Problem is there's no classes in PoE, whereas D2 has real classes. Basically PoE only has 1 class and all you do is choose which side of the tree you want to start on.

    Each class in d2 has their own skills, which is why every build seemed unique, or everyone seemed different. In PoE everyone takes from the same set of skills and talents, so everyone ends up being the same and builds seem bland.

  • Inability to design creative spells
    By tying mechanical effects to support gems, GGG has limited the things they can do to make skills unique. Remember in MXL how flamefront shoots a wave of firebolts and pyroblast sends a ball of fire? GGG can't design skills like this because pyroblast+LMP = flamefront. GGG designs boring skills because almost anything 'interesting' can be made with a gem + combo of supports. They have trouble making interesting skills that don't invalidate pre-existing gem combinations by simply being a better version

  • Little Skill-combination diversity
    The stat reqs of the gems in POE are negligible. Hence effectively every gem is available to every character. Despite what you might think, this actually reduces the number of viable skill combonations.
    Unless there are meaningful barriers discouraging players from accessing the entire skill pool and cherry picking the best skills, there will always be little build diversity. This is why everyone and their mother is running 6 auras.

  • Pandering towards nostalgia Some terrible gameplay elements are included for the sake of nostalgia (MF, Reflect), game balance around Alt-F4, Boss-cheesing via free townportal heals. Its 2013, not 1999! By refusing to innovate GGG has created a freak game that is a poor 3D port of D2.

  • Desynch and Poor Optimization
    lol


PoE may be a farming/trading sim, yet nothing holds it back like its own community. Helpful suggestions are flamed into fiery hell because PoE “is a 'hardcore game for hardcore players” and you should “go back to D3”.

More pearls of wisdom include gems like; “you just want instant gratification you whiny baby”, “keep playing Angry Birds/Farmville you casual nigger”, “Stop talking noob when you don’t have a level 90 char yet”, “you is gay fegit”, “you can't handle the skill POE requires”.

What a joke.

PoE is as hard as wiping your arse, as hardcore as a limp penis and as fun as being tasered. But its community confuses tedium for challenge, pain-endurance for skill and endless grinding for fun.

POE's community can continue torturing themselves while mistaking POE for the ARPG messiah. Diablo 3 may be targeted towards casuals but at least it was genuinely fun. I’ve got better games to play than a game where longevity is extended through slow pacing & low drop rates/exp gain like a cheap asian MMO. I'm done with the game.



TLDR: Path of Exile is a SHALLOW, SHALLOW game that deceives people into believing it's a complex game through thousands of useless nodes and skill combinations.


Last edited by Roflknife on Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:39 am; edited 16 times in total

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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by Wotan on Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:18 am

Amusing. You sound really frustrated. Relax and play some MXLU.

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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by zerger on Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:36 am

Nothing new here we didn't know yet Wink

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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by wojen616 on Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:36 am


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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by LeglessLegoLegolas on Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:45 am


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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by Roflknife on Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:15 pm

Even Blizzard has realised that solely removing the AH will only worsen the situation by forcing players into using dodgy 3rd party websites.

It's the core game that has a problem; the difficulty in gaining gear. The AH has (i may be wrong) mostly been a scapegoat for player anger over gear issues.

AND Blizzard has a decent/workable solution; drop gear tailored towards the player. This way they can give characters gear they need without increasing droprates and possibly break the economy. Players just find less useless gear. "Nice unique mallet but im building a Sporker like everyone else!"

I still feel this solution is a little clunky though. Its unintuitive and feels rather like you are being force-fed gear. I still believe a better solution is a deeper crafting system. That way players won't feel like they are being pigeonholed into gaining specific gear. Meanwhile; they are still gaining gear that is useful for them.

I believe this notion was in Laz's ARPG braindump. And used elegantly in MXL.


THE IDEAL SOLUTION TO A.H OVERUSE IS TO CHANGE THE GAME SO NORMAL PLAYERS ONLY NEED MINIMAL INTERACTION WITH THE A.H OR 3RD PARTY WEBSITE FOR THEIR GEARING NEEDS.


Last edited by Roflknife on Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by Brother Laz on Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:29 pm

I think ARPGs as a whole have issues these days. D3 actually tried to solve the uninteresting gameplay of typical ARPGs and succeeded... but it's still a repetitive grinder, now with boring items too.

Challenges!
Challenges!
Challenges!
Challenges!
People replayed old 2D shooters for ages. Why do ARPGs still struggle with the repetition issue? Ha. Ha.

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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by Splift on Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:45 pm

Random chance completely dominates the ENTIRE game (devaluing player skill and decisions).
I don't really see this as a bad thing and there is still skill and choices that are important.
Massive difficulty spikes (which don't require skill as they have no counterplay) appear out of nowhere without reward (Perpetus throws invisible hax traps that snare for 2 seconds, then drops a driftwood club).
Virtually every game has this and personally I think it makes things interesting.
Gameplay isn't fluid and is slow and boring.
I agree, and it is one of the games biggest flaws. Everyone, regardless of build is doing the exact same thing.... curse, aoe, curse aoe, single target, curse aoe etc.
Most skills are uninspired (fireball, nova, cleave etc) or are poorly designed and mechanically unviable (incinerate, searing bond etc).
Most games like this have some unbalanced and nonviable skills, but I do agree that the skills are very basic and uninspiring.
Some gameplay elements are antifun for the sake of nostalgia (MF) or no reason at all (reflect).
Surprisingly I saw a thread on the main site complaining about mf and it actually had a lot of support, maybe 70% of the replies favored removing mf and there weren't too many flames. I can somewhat see the reason for reflect because without it near glass cannon ranged chars would basically go unchecked.
Game longevity is extended artificially through slow pacing from astronomically low drop rates/exp gain (and you thought that was limited to cheap asian MMOs!).
Every mmo with rpg elements does this.
Hoarding and progress starvation are massive problems (hoarding orbs until level 65+, and you thought Diablo 2 was boring for making you wait until lvl 30 so you could put points into synergistic skills!).
True, but I don't really see a way around it since you can get to lvl 70+ on softcore with random junk you find. No point spending currency on an item you will only use for a few hours to faceroll slightly easier.
Trading is mandatory to be viable, yet GGG refuses to implement an AH, regarding AH overuse as a cause instead of a symptom of poor game design.
I super agree. This game needs some sort of market system so badly yet a massive part of the community is opposed to it just because diablo 3 had one so "omg if diablo 3 had it it must be fail!!!!!1111oneone!!".Even the mere mention of any feature in d3 that may benifet poe sends the fanboys into violent spazms of rage.

Imo poe has a lot going for it and despite its big flaws its the first game in a while that kept me entertained for more than a few days. What it needs most is simply more polish on all sides. In grindfest games like this its the little things that keep you going. Flashy skills that are enjoyable to see in action, cool and badass looking enemys, areas that seem meaningful and something interesting to grind towards (equipment or more levels). There have been tons of really good arpgs with insane amounts of potential that just aren't playable for more than a few days because they screwed up the little things.

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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by Archangel on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:14 pm

I played for one week, quitted. Some time later I played for another week, then took some time reading through all critics, flame wars and such going in GGG' forums, deleted the game.

- RNG. What's the most unbiased way of giving equal chance for everyone? Luck. They made it so the entire game is based on luck, hence why so many RNG complains.

- Their rendering engine is (or was) faulty. It doesn't perform well, it performs really bad on many systems configurations.

- The whole game has been designed around desync. The fanboys are just replying "play around desync, build your char around desync and you'll be good".

- Diminishing returns. But, it drops so exponentially at the game's end that some players are just quitting because it gets excessively repetitive. The background story itself is unfinished.

- Many players are compensating for low drops by means of multibox.

- That skilltree and millions of gems combinations are fun at the first glance. But they are suffering from the "butterfly effect". Change the duration of a skill, increase damage of something, decrease of something else, change one skill node of place, and the whole thing is turmoiled.

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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by Splift on Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:45 pm

I don't really see how the rng in this game is so much different than d2 or any other rpgish online game. If they gave fixed drops for certain quests and events then the value of those rewards would simply be devalued. In poe at least you are nearly guaranteed to find a handful of chaos some gcp and maybe an exalt just from leveling up to 60. In d2 the only thing you had a reasonable chance to get from leveling up was chipped/perf gems and you had to fill your entire inv full of them just for a measly pul rune if i remember correctly.

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