A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by hellgrind on Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:43 pm

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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by cain66 on Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:35 pm

I did my absolute best not to reply to this tantrum thread but I honestly couldn't help myself. I believe even the developers of PoE stated at some point that it is not a game for every tosser who's played D2 at some point or another. The economy and general gameplay system are specifically designed for people who look for challenges in their games, and will therefore frustrate anyone who's just looking for casual facerolling to kill some time. As for gameplay not being fluid or interesting, guess what, it gets exponentially more fluid and interesting towards the endgame, and as such contributes to the sense of accomplishment you get for making a viable build. But I guess your sorry ass that barely (if at all) made it through cruel difficulty didn't get to expirience that. Sad story. Did you call all your friends and told them you've completed Diablo 2 at the exact same moment when you killed normal Andariel or did you wait a few seconds to catch your breath after all the excitement? Cause it doesn't really seem you actually play through your games.
And this is coming from a player with quite a poor account that doesn't exactly grind much in any game ever. And I still find PoE playable and quite fun. So i guess all those people who were telling you how you lack skill for a game like this were probably right.
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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by Roflknife on Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:04 am

cain66 wrote:I did my absolute best not to reply to this tantrum thread but I honestly couldn't help myself. I believe even the developers of PoE stated at some point that it is not a game for every tosser who's played D2 at some point or another. The economy and general gameplay system are specifically designed for people who look for challenges in their games, and will therefore frustrate anyone who's just looking for casual facerolling to kill some time. As for gameplay not being fluid or interesting, guess what, it gets exponentially more fluid and interesting towards the endgame, and as such contributes to the sense of accomplishment you get for making a viable build. But I guess your sorry ass that barely (if at all) made it through cruel difficulty didn't get to expirience that. Sad story. Did you call all your friends and told them you've completed Diablo 2 at the exact same moment when you killed normal Andariel or did you wait a few seconds to catch your breath after all the excitement? Cause it doesn't really seem you actually play through your games.
And this is coming from a player with quite a poor account that doesn't exactly grind much in any game ever. And I still find PoE playable and quite fun. So i guess all those people who were telling you how you lack skill for a game like this were probably right.
Look guys! If you look closely at the OP you can identify him as a POE fanboy from his characteristic attacks on the author of the thread instead of using actual arguments. Also the lack of ability to tell the difference between autistic farming and skill.

@ cain 66; I'd be interested how you found yourself on the Median forums. Do you spend your life surfing the net to throw dung at people who don't like your favourite game?

Tell me, how much skill does it take to farm 12 hours a day because you dont have a life? The economy and general gameplay system is designed for idiots willing to believe that suffering shit game design is somehow rewarding.

"Gameplay gets more fluid and interesting as you level youself up" you say?
-Yeah right. Being pigeonholed into using 8 auras and the same curses on every character to min/max clearly show the build diversity and player choice POE is famous for!
-Finding exalts more often than once a month is also going to let players casually faceroll.
-Having a currency system only the top 5% wealthiest players can use productively is also fun and rewarding



As for my game experience i reached 74 maps (and several other characters to the 60s) since closed beta before i realised further grinding was pointless. And I levelled a Windy, Blizzard sorc, smiter, javazon, boner and a vindicator to endgame PvP in Diablo 2 so go fuck yourself if the best arguments you can come up with are "OP dosen't like POE so he must be a noob". I've had enough of that idiocy on the POE forums.

"Clearly these forums are not designed for you. Go back to POE" Very Happy
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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by cain66 on Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:51 am

I applaud your accomplishment of playing 6 different characters in Diablo 2 (seriously, wow man).
As for what I'm doing in these forums, I was a dedicated MXL player for quite some time and as such like to pop in and see if there's anything new going on with the mod. Sue me. I'm so sorry you wasted so much time into a game you obviously hate, you must feel really stupid now. Carry on with the tantrum then sir, I won't be interrupting you again. Good day.
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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by Roflknife on Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:35 pm

cain66 wrote:I applaud your accomplishment of playing 6 different characters in Diablo 2 (seriously, wow man).
As for what I'm doing in these forums, I was a dedicated MXL player for quite some time and as such like to pop in and see if there's anything new going on with the mod. Sue me. I'm so sorry you wasted so much time into a game you obviously hate, you must feel really stupid now. Carry on with the tantrum then sir, I won't be interrupting you again. Good day.
With the nonsense coming through your posts i highly doubt you've ever played Diablo 2 to a meaningful level. Its obvious you have no idea how much more effort it takes to gear six D2 chars to stomp pvp compared to leveling tons of random weapon-throw warcry barbarians to normal baal (which i did as well).

I highly doubt anyone in the MXL community will be sad to see you leave the forums. Wink
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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by Donitsi on Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:11 pm

Roflknife wrote:
NOTE: NONE OF THESE COMPLAINTS HAVE TO DO WITH GGG'S INDIE BUDGET

  • Random chance completely dominates the ENTIRE game (devaluing player skill and decisions).
  • Massive difficulty spikes (which have 0 counterplay so still dont require skill to beat) appear without warning (no visual/audio cues) without reward (Perpetus throws invisible hax traps that snare for 2 seconds, then drops a driftwood club).
  • Gameplay isn't fluid and is slow and boring.
  • Most skills are uninspired (fireball, nova, cleave etc) or are poorly designed and mechanically unviable (incinerate, searing bond etc).
  • Some gameplay elements are antifun for the sake of nostalgia (MF) or no reason at all (reflect).
  • Game longevity is extended artificially through slow pacing from astronomically low drop rates/exp gain (and you thought that was limited to cheap asian MMOs!).
  • Hoarding and progress starvation are massive problems (hoarding orbs until level 65+, and you thought Diablo 2 was boring for making you wait until lvl 30 so you could put points into synergistic skills!).
  • Trading is mandatory to be viable, yet GGG refuses to implement an AH, regarding AH overuse as a cause instead of a symptom of poor game design.

The gameplay direction GGG is taking is terrible and makes Path of Exile a tedious farming and trading sim. Being good requires nothing beyond an absurd pain threshold and extreme patience. I laugh at the people on the forums who delude themselves into thinking they are hardcore pros when their only speciality is farming 8 hours a day. Helpful gameplay suggestions from sane fans are flamed by 'pros' because Path of Exile is a 'hardcore game for hardcore players' and you should 'go back to Diablo 3'.
I had to register just to reply to you.

[*]Random chance completely dominates the ENTIRE game (devaluing player skill and decisions).
Exactly like in Diablo 2. Loot was random and areas were random. In ladder rush this mattered a lot, if you didnt get/buy Titans or some other extremely good item you didnt have any chance to be in the top. And just to remind you the absolutely best chance to find it is 1:1300 from nm mephisto compared to the 1:100000 from champions. How is that not purely chance and repetitive grind if you want a single item?
In poe too random chance effects races a lot but much less in the normal leagues. Everybody isnt supposed to be super rich and get every possible item you want. Random chances is important in games like these, if you just get everything without work you wouldnt play it for long. Grind/work is necessary to make you feel good about the power of your characters. Also you can have fun without the best of the best gear too you know.

[*]Massive difficulty spikes (which have 0 counterplay so still dont require skill to beat) appear without warning (no visual/audio cues) without reward (Perpetus throws invisible hax traps that snare for 2 seconds, then drops a driftwood club).
Undead stygian dolls with certain mods in Diablo 2 could kill any character ever created no matter how good, dont remember the calculations exactly but the damage in certain conditions was like 50k. Also dont know what other examples then perpetus you have, but Perpetus is only hard if your a glass cannon, also it says it in his mods that he can throw bear traps. Any high armor/life char can destroy it easily at lower level then the zone. I cant think of any difficulty spikes which dont have a counterplay, exept desync rhoas from out of screen.
Also Hell Baal could drop Minor mana potion or gold piles. Four gold piles and magic ring was the worst drop iv ever had from Baal.

[*]Gameplay isn't fluid and is slow and boring.
That is your opinion. I like it, becouse you can actually dodge enemy attacks, compared to diablo 3 where every mob hits you allways even though you moved out of the range.

[*]Most skills are uninspired (fireball, nova, cleave etc) or are poorly designed and mechanically unviable (incinerate, searing bond etc).
There are 86 skills currently in the game. Offcourse there will be some that aint that good. Yes some of the skills aint flashy and awesome looking, but are very useful anyway. Every single game has bad skills Diablo 2, Diablo 3, Torchlights etc.

[*]Some gameplay elements are antifun for the sake of nostalgia (MF) or no reason at all (reflect).
Reflect is important to have to counter glass cannons and even them can counterplay against reflect. I actually like the whole concept of MF especialy how they have split into two stats. Loved it in Diablos and love it here. Makes you have a choice of progressing faster or getting more loot. I allways choose the mf way. Also i havent made a single sporker of anykind. If there were no MF at all then how would you handle loot? You wouldnt have any way to increase your chances of getting uniques or more rares, that would just be boring.

[*]Game longevity is extended artificially through slow pacing from astronomically low drop rates/exp gain (and you thought that was limited to cheap asian MMOs!).
[*]Hoarding and progress starvation are massive problems (hoarding orbs until level 65+, and you thought Diablo 2 was boring for making you wait until lvl 30 so you could put points into synergistic skills!).
Experience gain is definately not too slow. The game is created in mind that 99% of characters wont ever get to lvl90. Those last 10 levels are there just for the most hardcore players to have something to gain in the endgame. How many +90lvl chars did you have in diablo 2? Most orbs are dropped so you can use them starting from level 1, but the few orbs that are rare and expensive offcourse aint meant to be used during the leveling. Every game has these endgame consumables that cost more then most people have in total. In D2 high runes like zod, D3 Perfect stars or whatever gems and here Exalted, Eternal and Mirror. All are super expensive and only the richest have them, unless your lucky in poe to find a exalted or mirror from the first zombie you kill the whole game. Oh and btw currently in 1 week hc race the top char is lvl 81 and its day 3, im lvl 70 in it at rank 43.

[*]Trading is mandatory to be viable, yet GGG refuses to implement an AH, regarding AH overuse as a cause instead of a symptom of poor game design.
No it is not mandatory, unless you want to go to high end maps which arent even meant to be available to everyone. Currently in the 1 week race i have bought 2 items that im currently using. Couple low lvl leveling weapons too but those werent necessary at all, just for fun.

This overly long rant made by long time fan of the arpg genre and person who has made around 40 over lvl 70 diablo 2 chars and whopping two diablo 3 chars at 60. In Poe eight 30-50lvl, seven 50-70lvl and two +80 lvl chars. Also i havent used a single exalted or higher and my highest map ever is 73 and im having a blast with the game.

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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by Violentin on Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:36 pm

Donitsi wrote:Exactly like in Diablo 2.
So what? Just because it was in ten years old game, it automatically counts as an argument?
Also, OP most likely compares MXL versus PoE. And former is A LEAGUE better and interesting than latter, minus the interface.
Donitsi wrote:That is your opinion.
But it is slow and boring and it's a fact.
For example I started playing MXL after a long hiatus and HOLY SHIT, IT'S SO FUN! I mean I can start basically every build right off the bat and stick to it for a whole game with minor adjustments instead of grinding for needed skills for a hundreds hours? Oh and I also face hundreds of monsters and spew fireballs at semi-automatic rate AT THE FIRST ACT ON NORMAL.
Donitsi wrote:There are 86 skills currently in the game.
He meant only usable ones, because only they that count.
Donitsi wrote:Offcourse there will be some that aint that good.
The problem is not that most skills "aren't good", it's that most of them are just simply useless.
Donitsi wrote:Yes some of the skills aint flashy and awesome looking, but are very useful anyway.
Let me guess, they, by pure coincedence, are also totem/buffs/auras?
Donitsi wrote:Reflect is important to have to counter glass cannons and even them can counterplay against reflect.
Oh really? I thought it was about stacking MOAR HP. Glass cannons already, by their nature, has counterplay versus them, adding passive damage to it isn't needed.
Donitsi wrote:Makes you have a choice of progressing faster or getting more loot.
Not really, it's just make gap between OP and sub-optimal builds even wider.
Donitsi wrote:Also i havent made a single sporker of anykind.
Just because you didn't put spork in your favourite totem, doesn't mean that your build didn't belong to "anykind".
Donitsi wrote: If there were no MF at all then how would you handle loot?
By increasing killspeed?
Donitsi wrote:You wouldnt have any way to increase your chances of getting uniques or more rares, that would just be boring.
>implying stacking HP isn't boring

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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by Roflknife on Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:01 am

@violetin.

I agree with your arguments so hard i'm wondering if your my alter-ego? Razz

Just a few more points to Donitsi
-No it was not like Diablo at all, even in D2 there was a lot more NON-RNG crafting like socketing runes/gems/jewels and making runewords and the orange crafting system (basically POE's with some guaranteed mods). MXL expanded on this with MOs, unique recipe. In POE literally everything is random except for eternal orbs, whetstones and mirrors (whetstones are boring and good luck finding eternals/mirrors)
POE goes overboard on RNG. Theres RNG in finding every item in the game, and RNG in using those items.


TLDR: The odds of finding an Ber and Jah rune in Diablo 2 are LOW. But when i do find them i know shits going to happen when i make an Enigma runeword. Compare this to POE where using 2 exalts will likely reward me with +1 life regen or some other bullshit
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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by Donitsi on Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:50 am

Roflknife wrote:
TLDR: The odds of finding an Ber and Jah rune in Diablo 2 are LOW. But when i do find them i know shits going to happen when i make an Enigma runeword. Compare this to POE where using 2 exalts will likely reward me with +1 life regen or some other bullshit
The odds of finding BER and JAH in diablo 2 is quite propably much worse then finding multiple exalts.
Poe since january and 2 Exalt drops and 3 divines which are even more rare but still about 1/4th of the value. Currently holding around 18 exalted in currency in onslaught and still havent used a single one. But i have used around 150 fusings and gained four 5link items and used propably 100 chaos orbs on gear which is still low amount if you consider the really rich people into equations.
Started Diablo 2 at Launch of LoD and played it the most of all games i have ever played. Allmost every ladder reset and even before ladder resets there were more then a year full of diablo 2. High runes dropped ONE Vex and ONE Ohm. So yeah random much?
Also i would like to say that i liked that in diablo 2 there were sort of hidden diminishing returns in MF that most people didnt consider. If you had MF you had lower chance to find socketed items which were quite valuable. This mechanic is in play in PoE but in lesser form.

Also i havent made a single char that utilizes spell totem as main damage dealer or any other way. I have tried skeleton totem but it didnt fit for my playstyle so didnt use it for long.

Non flashy usefull or fun skills: Split arrow, leap slam, traps, cleave just to mention some.


   Donitsi wrote:Makes you have a choice of progressing faster or getting more loot.

Not really, it's just make gap between OP and sub-optimal builds even wider.
I didnt say low life sporker wasnt OP. It is but its just so boring. Every game has some build that is just op in someway. D2 hammerdins, D3 ww barbarians etc. Even with so called sub-optimal build i can do the same that the op build can but just a little slower and enjoy the experience much more.

   Donitsi wrote: If there were no MF at all then how would you handle loot?

By increasing killspeed?
So you would say that the only thing the player needs to do to be the best is get the most dps? Thats just stupid and decreases the games interest. You have to have somekind of choices in what you want to achieve with your character or everyones characters will end up the same. Think about diablo 3. Every single character cares about 4things, Main stat, Crit, attack speed and resist somewhat. If the item doesnt have all those 4 things its useless. It becomes dull to build a character when all you care are 4 stats and there are no drawbacks to those stats. Do you have a better idea to have drawbacks to stats? Or do you just want people to one shot everything with maximum chance of finding loot and without any chance of dying ever to something like reflect or mobs with CC? How is that fun after a while?

Edit:
Crafting in diablo 2. Orange items had the possibility to be the best items available under certain conditions and certain builds, BUT crafting a good orange item was extremely unlikely. I can say i have crafted around 200-300 items with horadric cube and made like 1-3 really good items. Weapons were the ones that could be the best in the game and i have seen like ONE crafted axe that had almost the max rolls that you could have on a weapon during my whole diablo 2 gaming time. Yes i was a avid d2jsp trader so i knew about the best items on hc allways.
And then there is the runewords. Okay make a call to arms and roll bad rolls on the shouts. You just lost half of the value of the runes itself. Yea no rng involved right?

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Re: A discussion of Path of Exile's shortcomings.

Post by Roflknife on Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:31 am

Even a bad CTA is a better reward than vaal regalia that spawning 10% res.


Hell, lets say your right and we find 4 exalts for every high rune. CTA has 3 HRs, so we'd find 12 exalts.

Can you think of anything you could make with 12 exalts with POE's terrible RNG that would be more rewarding than even a BAD CTA?

I would be surprised if you crafted anything worth more than 2 exalts
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