Help me make my amazon better

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Help me make my amazon better

Post by zaphodbrx on Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:12 pm

Hi friends. First, let me introduce myself, I am a long time player of Diablo 2, and have played Median XL before, though I really got into the game about two months ago. In fact I think I made an account on this forum before, but I cannot recall the username correctly. Anyway, I usually don't post much on the internet, as I have limited access to it. But I think I have come to a point where some help would be really useful, as in fact, I am unable to make progress on my own.

The story so far: I made an amazon. A spearazon in fact, she was, from level 1 to 120, using pounce and hyena strike. However after Act 2 destruction I decided that melee wasn't cutting it and started looking for other options. I finally settled for enfilade skill with a javelin and completed destruction with it ( all quests except countess, witches are too annoying, could use some help here.. )

For reference, I am using a compiled HTML file called "Offline Documentation", which I think I found somewhere on this forum. It has been really invaluable.

Also I completed the following ubers and have their charms:

Creature of Flame
Butcher
Death Projector
IOTSS Malic
IOTSS Lucion
Tal Rasha
King Koth
Khalimgrad
Tran Athualua ( with trophy )
Enead Necromancers
Akarat ( with trophy )
Bartuc's legacy ( no trophy )
Infernal machine
Azmodan ( no trophy )

Also note: I am playing Median XL 2005, not ultimative.

Also, I ran Tran Athualua about 200 times with the javazon with about 500 mf. As a result, I have a good collection of sacred unique and set items.

Of course, there are also the Sunstones of Ice, fire, thunder and the class charm. All the challenges are complete, though the black road challenge took like forever. Fauztinville is huge, and I had to go online for a map to find the bosses.

I have also completed all the minigames and have +500 stat points from signets of learning.

Now I want to get on with some of the other ubers, but I am hitting a roadblock. I am not being able to do them.

My main problem is knowledge. Unlike Diablo 2, I don't know this game well enough to make good decisions about skills and items. The offline document has helped, along with some guessing and testing, but not any more.

I've looked for guides, on this forum or otherwise. Sorry to say, but they are all useless. They all just list out a set of items and write a one line description of how to do difficult ubers.

This just doesn't help me. I want concepts, not item names. If an item is good, I want to know why, supported by some numbers if possible.

For example, many guides say use empyrean bands MO'ed with thunder hammer, and I can see the hammers on screen and they seem to be helping, but I really want to know why.


My current build

Skills: Max Enfilade, moon queen, fire elemental, spellbind, war spirit, curare, rest defensive harmony.

Items
Witchhunter's hood - Max res, DR%, etc.
Phantom flight pilum - damage, +5 skills, hunting banshee proc
Red vex shield - Minion hp, +skills
Haragami quilted armor - huge life replenish, 50 fhr
Lamen of the archbishop
Empyrean band x2
Everchase boots - DR%, ctc hunting banshee
Celestia's belt - DR%, skill
Lamha Na Droithe gloves
switch: pax mystica- blink

None of the items are MO'ed, except one of the empyrean bands which has 15% ctc thunder hammer. I generally don't MO sacred items.

I am looking for some general help on:

Damage output

I have no idea what damage I am doing or how to improve it. Curare messes up the LCS big time, and anyway I have never trusted the LCS even in Diablo 2.

What should I get to improve my damage

Should I get +skill items?

Should I get a weapon with more damage?

What about +% to cold/poison/physical damage. Is it useful, and how does it work?

Is curare useful?

What the hell are things like strength factor to skill damage on a sacred gloves called Lamha Na Draoithe that I have. Energy factor to skill damage? Does it help venom? Cold damage on enfilade?

what about procs?
In D2, procs weren't very useful. However, ever since I equipped the unique pilum phantom flight, I am noticing that hunting banshee does a lot of damage and pagan rites heals me. However, ice lance on magelock and lightning on fjordwind doesn't seem to help much.

Crushing blow??

Defensive measures

I am currently very dependent on my summons to tank for me, ie. fire elementals. Each of these little critters has 17000 hp and still dies really easy, I don't know why. The main character has 9,500 hp ( all remaining points in vita after reqs ), 20% DR, 85% allres.

The summons took massive amounts of skill points to max out, what with fire elementals, spellbind to increase their hp, curare and defensive harmony. But I just really need them, cause without them I die real easy. Only two skills in the javelin tree are maxed- enfilade and moon queen. Everything else is to support fire elementals. And that is why I haven't got very far with the other amazon builds, they don't leave enough skill points for the summons.

I would like to know if it is possible not to depend on summons, or else some other way of getting something else to tank. Note, I do not want to depend on reanimates. They are very unreliable and clog my screen, and I like having RIP on my gear at all times. SOV is useless as well, it doesn't draw enough attention.

Other skills

I would like your input on other skills and builds. I have tried the following and this is what I think.

Spearazon- awesome, but too fragile and melee.
Bowazon - I don't get wyrmshot, the dragons are too slow and why elemental damage ??
Blood - I don't get the concept, I am supposed to be less than 1/3 life but then I die, wtf? and balefire sucks my life down like crazy
Javelin - moonbeam/richocet/fairy ring - useless.

Enfilade is the only skill I have found useful, combined with fire elementals for tanking.

But anyway, if you want to recommend a build to me, I would highly appreciate it. I am making a list of items that I currently have, for reference. Please explain the concept behind the build, not just a list of items.

SUs

Bows: Sinewstring, Demonstorm, Hand of Karchus, Stormhowl, Sky sweeper, Athualua's command

Javelins: Magelock, phantom flight, emberstorm, fjorwind, windwall

Spears: Ghost anchor,Cranium bore, Silverstrike, void seeker, Greiz cheat, Darkspite, Pride of Caldeum ( eth )

Rest: I'm a little tired now, but I have a lot of armors and stuff, tell me and I'll look.

Set items

Red vex - complete
pantheon - complete
Vasily - armor missing
Celestia - pike, helmet, belt available.

Ubers

Coming back to the javazon and uber quests, I have my eye on the following ubers and would appreciate any hints regarding the same.

Lord Aldric Jitan

I want to do this uber so bad, but it doesn't seem possible. I kill all his guards and get him down to 25% hp and then he regenerates to full. Open wounds doesn't work, and he is immune to poison. Also guard towers.

Belial

Don't know how this guy works, he just kills me instantly and I can't do him even on hatred.

Rathma's square

No idea what to do here, the dogs come back to life and do much damage.

Quov Tsin

I stacked up 95% allres with +250 on top of that and with Harigami's healing I could tank his blast without losing any health. However he is all immune and I can barely dent him, does he regenerate? Also am I supposed to stack poison res as well? Cause he summoned a cloud and I think it killed me.

Ok that's a lot for now. Hope you read it all, and thanks in advance for any help!


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Re: Help me make my amazon better

Post by grimjerk on Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:47 pm

Well. Lot of stuff there.

Random thoughts.

If you have the complete Red Vex set check out Stoya's bloodzon experiment in the showcase section.

If you are jus waning meatshields ditch the elementals and go with reanimates.

What uberskill were you going with when she was a spearzon? If the answer isn't Paragon then that may have been your problem. Spearzon has massive defense and several great attacks. The problem with pounce is the ND. Also some o-skill options. My next project is going to be an exploration of Gorefest. With the massive ED from Lioness, Gorefest could be quite nasty.

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Re: Help me make my amazon better

Post by IxIRevulsion on Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:55 pm

@zaphodbrx wrote:  All quests except countess, witches are too annoying, could use some help here..
Use a "lolsummon" from an MO...any will work, they're stationary unlike normal summons and you can use them to lure witches away by letting them get pounced.

@zaphodbrx wrote: Many guides say use empyrean bands MO'ed with thunder hammer, and I can see the hammers on screen and they seem to be helping, but I really want to know why. 
Each hammer deals 1/2 weapon damage, stuns and knocks back.

@zaphodbrx wrote:  I generally don't MO sacred items
Always MO all your items to bring your character to it's fullest potential, whether you need Life after Kill and Resists for survival or Crushing Blow on your weapon to increase your damage output

@zaphodbrx wrote: What about +% to cold/poison/physical damage. Is it useful, and how does it work?
It is useful if you have a source of that damage, for example you have a cold skill that deals 100 cold damage and obtain 10% cold damage from an item it now effectively does 110 damage, now put that aspect into you deal 10,000 cold damage with X skill and you again obtain that 10% cold damage boost you now effectively do 11,000 cold damage with that skill. This in turn applies to cold damage added to your physical attacks through items.

@zaphodbrx wrote: What the hell are things like strength factor to skill damage on a sacred gloves called Lamha Na Draoithe that I have. Energy factor to skill damage? Does it help venom? Cold damage on enfilade?
Adding points into Energy increases the damage output of skills that receive a bonus from your total energy attribute. Energy factor increases the bonus this applies and likewise strength factor applies the same principle, but uses strength instead of your energy.

Spell damage increased by (260*energy)/(250+energy) + min((energy*enr_factor)/15000,200) percent

@zaphodbrx wrote:  what about procs?
In D2, procs weren't very useful. However, ever since I equipped the unique pilum phantom flight, I am noticing that hunting banshee does a lot of damage and pagan rites heals me. However, ice lance on magelock and lightning on fjordwind doesn't seem to help much.
Procs are highly useful in Median XL, builds like the "Blue Death" Assassin were entirely based glacial nova proc decimating everything. The mainstay is if you have an elemental proc you need to have that elemental damage boosted as well unless it has a sub effect like knockback, stun or healing. Procs like Arrow Storm carries effects like your Crushing Blow.

@zaphodbrx wrote: Crushing blow??
Crushing blow is a mechanic that procs on melee or ranged attacks and has 1/4 with melee and 1/8 with ranged attacks to reduce the life of X mob by that amount. This carries over to bosses as well with 1/8 and 1/16 factors. Example: 100% crushing blow and you hit a base mob with a melee attack...it will automatically lose 25% of it's life as well as X life from your other sources of damage. It is useful if you can obtain a decent % of it to keep it as a constant effect...can also be found on MO's for weapons.

@zaphodbrx wrote: Is curare useful?
It's useful as a large source of PD, however not all uber bosses are vulnerable to PD, some heroics don't lose there poison immunity either (Astrogha for example) and I gather this is now your main focus...Paragon for survival is usually the mainstay in most Amazon builds. You can only inflict damage if your alive to do so.

@zaphodbrx wrote: I am currently very dependent on my summons to tank for me, ie. fire elementals. Each of these little critters has 17000 hp and still dies really easy, I don't know why. The main character has 9,500 hp ( all remaining points in vita after reqs ), 20% DR, 85% allres.
You chose Curare over Spirit of Vengence, your most effective meatshield summon.

Summons require your assistance from items as well such as X% to summon resistances or X% to summon life to make them truly effective, if you can't provide for them they're usefulness as a meat shield is more or less impractical in Destruction. If your looking for meat shields, just focus on reanimates.

Respec and obtain Paragon, a Zon is largely based on mobility and paragon for great survivability.

DR% applies only to physical damage.

85% is not immunity, most ubers contain some form of elemental pierce as well.

@zaphodbrx wrote: Spearazon- awesome, but too fragile and melee.
Bowazon - I don't get wyrmshot, the dragons are too slow and why elemental damage ??
Blood - I don't get the concept, I am supposed to be less than 1/3 life but then I die, wtf? and balefire sucks my life down like crazy
Javelin - moonbeam/richocet/fairy ring - useless.
Spearzon- Awesome, but also contains many defensive boots and coupled with Paragon, Amazons fast mobility and pounce teleport it can become highly defensive based build. *fixed*

Bowazon- Has rainbow damage and barrage for massive AoE effect and multiple elemental damage as well as ghost arrows that pierce walls for "cheesing" as well as Wyrmshot that flies off screen and still effectively kills everything with autotargeting arrows *fixed*

Blood- Contains the skill Baccganalia that increases life and damage while below 1/3rd HP which is not a problem when using reanimates and summons as shields as well as teleport from Jitans Gate or Blink

Javelin- Has moonbeam which heals me as I cast and gives me damage reduction, ricochet that bounces between target with the godly 5/4 weapon damage (entire builds are built around 5/4 skills), enfilade for single target rape and the one point wonder fairy ring for auto seeking fire damage *fixed*

@zaphodbrx wrote:

Coming back to the javazon and uber quests, I have my eye on the following ubers and would appreciate any hints regarding the same.

Lord Aldric Jitan

I want to do this uber so bad, but it doesn't seem possible. I kill all his guards and get him down to 25% hp and then he regenerates to full. Open wounds doesn't work, and he is immune to poison. Also guard towers.

Belial

Don't know how this guy works, he just kills me instantly and I can't do him even on hatred.

Rathma's square

No idea what to do here, the dogs come back to life and do much damage.

Quov Tsin

I stacked up 95% allres with +250 on top of that and with Harigami's healing I could tank his blast without losing any health. However he is all immune and I can barely dent him, does he regenerate? Also am I supposed to stack poison res as well? Cause he summoned a cloud and I think it killed me.

Ok that's a lot for now. Hope you read it all, and thanks in advance for any help!  
Jitan) Obtain 100% open wounds to constantly keep it applied to him, use the room up the stairs or the pillars as physical shields against the guard towers while you dwindle his life away without him regenerating.

Belial) His main countermeasure is his ability to curse you and bring you down to 1% HP, effectively killing you instantly...your main goal here is to stay mobile so the curse does not affect you. Being a "Heroic" boss he has an "Heroic" shield which makes him immune to all sources of damage untill X random immunity drops making him vulnerable to X damage type, counter this by A) Obtain a source of "Rainbow" (Multiple Elements) so keep a constant damage source on him or B) Obtain -199% enemy resistance to X element so when his immunity drops to it'll drop to -99% so you may stack a single damage source. Obtain 95% poison resists and use the druid melee set gloves or Astrogha's charm to reduce poison duration to make you immune to punishers.

Quov Tsin) Same concept as Belial being an "Heroic" boss he has the same shield effect so focus on a single or rainbow element and -resists, however you also need 95% all resists and +500% to negate his pierce ability. Hive does do massive poison damage, but 95% and 500% should protect you with your healing, use a quick potion if it seeps through.

Rathma Square) This one is mostly a DPS race, the dogs revive making it difficult to a glass cannon character. Use your summons and reanimates as shields to break through the initial force while getting to the boss ASAP and targeting him solely. Quickly in and quickly out, experiment finding the quickest possible route to him to reduce mobbing. Lead the dogs away into a corner and TP out and return via the Travincial WP and main entrance to give your self breathing room.

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Re: Help me make my amazon better

Post by The Big Ouchy on Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:31 pm

+spell damage of any element only works with spells and direct melee hits. It will do nothing on your javazon except for spell procs.

Spearzons can easily top 1 mil defense. Whenever someone has survivability issues I always recomend the ljosalf runeword (ber in staves) because it has a lionheart proc which is really nice. Having said that, no matter how high I've gotten my spearzons defense she just loves to die. I think It more so has to do with careful pouncing. If you pounce into the middle of a giant pack they'll all attack you at once and you'll die instantly. The nova is big enough that pouncing on the perimeter of packs should hit them all.

For javazons I would say ditch the elementals, put points into balance instead, get the aforementioned runeword staff and switch to either paragon or SoV for your uber. Paragon gives you much more life which= survivability. I would also highly recommend using fairy ring but oh well.

For gear consider the following:

body armor: Dragonheart runeword. Second best defense in the game (natasha's legacy being the first), You should be able to break 20k defense on an ancient armor and the +life and attack speed is quite nice too.

Helm: Siegfried runeword. Great all around runeword. 3k elemental damage, crushing blow, and resists make it a solid choice.

Javelin: Herfjotur runeword. Runeword weapons are capable of insane damage thanks to the way mystic orbs work with runewords. If you put enhanced damage orbs in an item before socketing the rune, the ed will stack over 350%. Also you get the double MO bonus from +999 to i need a life mystic orb. The runeword itself has a great javelin proc, good chronofield proc, decent damage and slows target.

Belt: Celestia's is ok but I usually like the deadfall TU heavy belt for the proc and crushing blow.

Shield: abandoned shrine crafted amazon shield that spawns with +amazon skills and increased chance of blocking. No need to explain.

These are all just suggestions but they're worth a try.

Super duper engame items of choice:

stormcloud SU maiden javelin.
danmaku SU athulua's hand
Natasha's legacy runeword armor or segnita SSSU field plate
Yife Ban SSU Einherjar Helm
boots and gloves from the All is One set (for wolf stance).
ahriman runeword belt or champion of the triune SSSU plated belt.

If you're uneasy about MO-ing your items you can download the offline tools which is capable of removing mystic orbs from items. Find it in the tools section of the forum.


Last edited by The Big Ouchy on Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:59 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Help me make my amazon better

Post by hellgrind on Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:41 pm

Ok, this will be a loooong post but i hope it will help you. So lets begin Smile

Since you want to play as java read this guide:
http://www.medianxl.com/t1723-2012-mistress-of-the-moon-warrior-javelin-amazon
It's a bit outdated but overall concept is correct. And this is skillplan for an "updated" version:
Skillplan javazon (Amazon, 2012 v005)
I'll explain why i dont chose uberskill. I don't chose it because i want to tell what i think of them and you decide what skill you want to use.

Curare:
Massive poison dmg. Very good skill for mid game (when you dont have good gear) for java and pounce zon. Not that good with bow imo, but it might be good when you have shower of rock ctc.

Paragon:
Huge boost to life. You can have up to 15k life without spending any points into vit. Very good for bow and java zons and i recommend this skill.

Spirit of Vengeance:
Best skill for bloodzon. It's also good for other because of the +%life and some +%fire spell dmg. Best for JD uber also Wink

And as for all guides. You are wrong, they are not useless. But i can agree with you that some guides are just "wall of text" and they don't explain how some items work that make then good.
First of all you have to understand the concept of items that are in the guide. Lets say you play javazon and you use normal attack as main attack (yes it's stupid but it's an example), and your dmg is 1-10 (you dont wear any weapon). Now you have 2 weapons to choose from. First have dmg 20-40 phys + 1-10 light/fire dmg. The second have 15-30 phys dmg + 1-50 cold dmg + spike nova on kill.
You can say that first weapon is better because of the higher phys and more element dmg. It can be if you dontt have any other weapon but in this case the second one is better because of the spike nova proc (spike nova is a 3/4 wdm "attack" that carries all of your phys+elem dmg).

As for getting better gear. Try to get as much ctc on kill and on striking. On attack proc wont work because on attack work only when you swing your weapon in meele. (every skill on amazon is ranged so on attack proc dont work). Also try to get as much weapon elemental dmg and +skill/res/fhr/as/def.
And for that thunderhammer that you mention. It's same like spike nova. It's wdm attack that carries all of your phys+elem dmg. Thay's why everyone tell to mo this in rings/amu.

And for proc. In vd2 proc was the crapiest thing in that game but in median they are really powerful things. They are very helpful in median. Basically they work as a second attack.

Crushing blow is also important thing. It doubles only your PHYSICAL dmg. It's good to have it but not that important for java imo.

As for defence thing. Just read this it will explain you what is defense in median: http://www.medianxl.com/t2800-the-many-faces-of-defense


The "Other skills"
I don't agree with you.
Spearzon - yes, can be fragile in early-mid game but with proreg gear it's the fastest farmer in median
Bowzon - one of the most powerfull builds in this game. And why elemental dmg ? because every projectile shoots from wyrmshot carries all your phys+elem dmg and it also convert 50% of your phys dmg to magic. So basically you have 5 elemental attack and every monster dies in off-screen.
Bloodzon - it's funny char. Balancing between life and death. Do tons of magic+fire dmg, but it can be fragile.
Javazon - just watch this and hit yourself in the head Wink : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r-BO47Zcso

The "uber" section:

Lord Aldric Jitan:
he is very hard with java. First kill any of his minion and use fairy ring, that use enfilade to take him down. Remember to get as much -ecr/+%cold spell dmg to improve enfilade.

Belial:
Read this, it will help you: http://www.medianxl.com/t2898-tips-for-belial

Rathma's square:
Not that hard. Try to get more reanimates, and also use fairy ring. Enfilade/fairy ring the boss, than save&exit if charm drops.

Quov Tsin:
Not hard but very annoying with java. Get 95% all res and stack ~450 res. Try to get " x absorb" (% or flat numbers). Enfilade all the way with -199 ecr and +cold spell dmg.

That's all i have to say. Hope it will help you a little.

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Re: Help me make my amazon better

Post by axios on Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:52 pm

how to make your javazon better:
1).get danmaku
2).ehh...^ thats's pretty much it
Hello 

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Re: Help me make my amazon better

Post by The Big Ouchy on Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:54 pm

@hellgrind wrote:
Crushing blow is also important thing. It doubles only your PHYSICAL dmg. It's good to have it but not that important for java imo.
You're thinking of deadly strike. Crushing blow automatically takes out a percentage of the affected enemies health (1/8 for ranged attacks) which is very powerful with multihitting skills which is right up a javazons alley.

And yeah.. belial is still a raging bitch.

Edit: biggest problem with the javazon is zons have miserable blocking speed leading to block-lock and death.


Last edited by The Big Ouchy on Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Help me make my amazon better

Post by hellgrind on Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:47 pm

@The Big Ouchy wrote:
@hellgrind wrote:
Crushing blow is also important thing. It doubles only your PHYSICAL dmg. It's good to have it but not that important for java imo.
You're thinking of deadly strike. Crushing blow automatically takes out a percentage of the affected enemies health (1/8 for ranged attacks) which is very powerful with multihitting skills which is right up a javazons alley.
Oh, i dodn't know that :)thx

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Re: Help me make my amazon better

Post by Splift on Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:58 pm

He is playing vanilla mxl 2012 so showing him videos of a javazon clearing fautz with every fkin sssu available, full charm set and godly crafts does not really mean shit. People have posted videos of 2 handed sword amazon clearing fautz with this level of equipment. The descrip of that video makes me LOL. "showing newbies how to play javazon effective". Ya maybe newbies with item pack. Strategy throw 1 javalin then walk while procs clear the whole level. Anyway.....

Judgement Day (inner cloister summon) is one of the biggest charm upgrades you can get and it is very easy for an amazon with the right strategy.

strategy #1: have every summon you can possibly get down and keep spamming more, keeping your distance until the avatars are spawned. Once they spawn kill them with enfilade. The pain here is you need to keep your life bulb full by drinking lots of pots and make sure your summons dont pull the ghosts onto you.

strategy #2(cheese):  summon the sov directly into the corner, then summonin j day on top of it and run at the last possible second (without bringing ghosts with you). All the ghosts will be hitting your sov and it will also be trapped. The avatars will be summoning at a ridiculous rate and will also go after your sov. To top it all off you can stand at a safe distance and wont be hit by the earthquakes (no need to heal) and can just spam enfilade till u get your charm and trophy. Note: this does not work as well in ultimative due to various changes to sov and j day.

As to whether you want paragon, curare or sov, its a pretty simple principle. If you cannot survive well with curare, go paragon. If paragon is not helping you survive enough(or you cant use it because you have tons of RW's) then go sov.

Make a shrine crafted maiden javelin with a proc

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Re: Help me make my amazon better

Post by shenron276 on Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:22 pm

@The Big Ouchy wrote:You're thinking of deadly strike. Crushing blow automatically takes out a percentage of the affected enemies health (1/8 for ranged attacks) which is very powerful with multihitting skills which is right up a javazons alley.
CB is powerful indeed... Example: Stormblast + 100% CB... Godly combo Very Happy

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