MAGIC FIND (MF) MECHANICS

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MAGIC FIND (MF) MECHANICS

Post by shenron276 on Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:14 pm

MAGIC FIND (MF) MECHANICS by shenron276

INTRO:

MF is a modifier you can find on lots of items throughout the game. It raises your chance to find "higher quality" items. There's 7 different quality types: low quality, normal, superior, magic, rare, set and unique. Items considered to be "Lower quality" are: low quality, normal and superior. Items considered to be "Higher quality" are: magic, rare, set and unique. Stacking up on MF (especially when you go farming) is a very wise idea, because more MF you have, faster the way to get items you need.

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WHAT EXACTLY DOES MF DO?

MF makes more items THAT DO DROP to be "higher quality" (magic/rare/set/unique), it doesn't make more items TO DROP. Or simplified: No matter how much MF you have, you WON'T get MORE items per enemy kill, but instead the items that do drop, will have better chances to be "higher quality" (magic/rare/set/unique).

EXAMPLE:
Let's say you have 300% MF. So, if the item dropped (with 0% MF) had 5% chance to be unique, with 300% it would have greater chances (let's say 12% - 13%) to be unique (NOTE: MF isn't as effective towards unique items as it is towards magic items, so percentage is NOT linear). The point is: If the game decides that Plated Belt will drop, it WILL drop, but MF will only decide whether that Plated Belt is going to be "higher quality" or "lower quality".

CONCLUSION:
MF is taken into calculation AFTER item has already dropped and it only decides WHAT QUALITY WILL ITEM BE ("higher quality" or "lower quality").

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HOW MUCH MF IS ENOUGH?

First, there's two things you should pay attention to that are closely related to MF, and those are killspeed and diminishing returns. More MF you have, less it pays off, because of these diminishing returns. The wisest solution would be to have as much MF as you can get, without sacrificing killspeed. So, finding the best balance between killspeed and diminishing returns is crucial for most optimal MF. It's not especially useful to go higher than 400% MF, in terms of finding more "higher quality" items. Why? Well, more than this usually doesn't make enough of a difference to be worth the equipment sacrifice, especially if you are playing Hardcore character. If your killspeed is practically the same with both 500% MF and 1000% MF, then go for higher MF (because, after a certain period of time, it will pay off).

EXAMPLE:
If you can do one "Kurast 3000 BA" run in 10 minutes with 1000% MF, and 3 runs in 10 minutes with 500% MF, it's a better choice to do it faster, simply because it's more effective and it pays off, in a long term. Why is it better? Well, lets say that in one "Kurast 3000 BA" run 400 items drops from enemy kills. Remember, MF doesn't make more items to drop, but instead makes more items that do drop to be "higher quality". So, if you do one run in 10 minutes, that's 400 item drops in 10 minutes. But, if you do 3 runs in 10 minutes, that's 1200 item drops in 10 minutes. In the end, that means you have better (more) chances of getting "higher quality" items, because more items dropped.

CONCLUSION:
You should get as much MF as needed for the perfect ratio between killspeed and diminishing returns.

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DIMINISHING RETURNS:

There is no cap on MF, but there are diminishing returns. In theory, the more MF you have the better (in terms of getting higher quality items). With 1000% MF you'll find more uniques than with 900% MF, far more than with 500%, and a shitload of times more than with 200%. So, in theory, more is always better. As you probably know, MF will also affect the probability of rare/set/unique items dropping (but that probability is not linear, as it is for magic items), but MF for those items are curves instead. The following picture should help you understand how diminishing returns of EFM (real MF chance) works.

EMF/MF effectiveness table:


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NEGATIVE SIDES OF HIGH MF PERCENTAGE:

You can loose many +skills, resistances, defensive modifiers (% ED, % TCD, % DR, % avoid, etc.) and even considerable damage loss (if you make MF oriented weapon) that could, in return, make your gameplay harder, more stressful and, in the end, totally different. If you were to make MF build, you would eventually reach the point where your gameplay, play style and strategy would change, because you sacrificed better items/sockets/MO space, to reach unhealthy and unnecessary amounts of MF. Ofc, you can always craft items that are very, very good + has high MF (but it's a looooong trip, because good crafts take forever to make). Hardcore players should be especially careful about modifying their equipment for high MF, cause unlike Super Mario, they only have 1 life. Very Happy

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FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ):

Q: Does 100% MF means I will always get magic item?
A: No. It means that your chances are doubled (200% = tripled, 300% = quadrupled, etc.).
NOTE: MF isn't as effective towards rare/set/unique items as it is towards magic items, so percentage is NOT linear.

EXAMPLE 1:
Let's say you have 30% base chance to get magic item on drop. With 100% MF you would have 60% chance,
because percentage is linear.

EXAMPLE 2:
Let's say you have 10% base chance to get unique item on drop. With 100% MF you wouldn't have 20% chance,
because the percentage is NOT linear (in truth, that chance would be around 17%).

Q: How does MF work with mercenary kills/reanimate kills/poison kills?
A: For mercenary kills: their MF + your MF (but only if mercenary lands the final hit).
For minion kills: they use your MF to calculate the drop (since they don't have any MF of their own).
For poison kills: MF is calculated normally (works with mercenary kills/reanimate kills/spell kills etc.). *
For any kind of kill by player (normal attacks, skills, spells): MF is calculated normally (all your MF add up and is used to calculate the drop).

NOTE: MF is calculated just for the player/party member that lands the final hit.
* The reason why poison is separately mentioned is because poison mechanics are kinda complicated, but since that's a story for itself, that's all I'm gonna say.

Q: Does MF works on chests scattered around acts?
A: Yes, and it also works on everything similar, like barrels, clickable corpses, hidden stashes, Evil Urns, etc.

Q: Does MF helps with gambling?
A: No. It has no effect on gambling.

Q: Does MF affects items offered by town vendors?
A: No. Town vendors sells ONLY normal and magic items.

Q: Does MF have any effect when creating items in the Horadric Cube?
A: No. None of the actions with Horadric Cube (creating items/uptiering items/upgrading items, etc.) are affected by MF.

Q: Can MF help me to get better runes?
A: No. Also, MF doesn't affect: great runes/elemental runes/Kabraxis' Stone runes, UMOs, gems, shrines, charms, trophies.

Q: Can I manually affect my MF chance?
A: Yes, in a way. You can increase the number of players that MAY bring you more item drops.
During a single player game, tcp/ip or open battle.net multiplayer game, press Enter and type the following to increase player count:

"/players X"  ==>  where X is a number from 1 to 8


EXAMPLE:
Let's take Tran Athulua's charm (Sunstone of the Gods) as example. Each of the 3 priestesses have 1/6 chance to drop the charm. That chance is generated by "NoDrop" *, that works like this: greater the player count, better the chance of getting something (the charm, in this example), and lesser the chance of getting nothing (no drop at all).

CONCLUSION:
Increasing the number of players MAY get you more item drops, so you'd automatically have MORE chances of getting "higher quality" items.

* "NoDrop" is a variable/value that has a 0% chance to generate items (no drop at all).

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ABSOLUTE MAX MF IN ULTIMATIVE:

HELM: 240% MF (BARBARIAN = 290% MF)
GLOVES: 220% MF
BOOTS: 225% MF
BELT: 280% MF
RINGS: 210% MF
AMULET: 30% MF
SHIELD: 225% MF *
ARMOR: 365% MF (SORCERESS = 450% MF)
WEAPON: 365% MF (BARBARIAN = 730% MF)
CHARMS: 180% MF

TOTAL: 2340% MF
TOTAL (SORCERESS): 2425% MF
TOTAL (BARBARIAN): 2530% MF


* Barbarian uses no MF from shield in this calculation, but instead dual wield crafted weapons (cause it's more effective than weapon + shield)
NOTE: All items used in this calculation are already socketed with 30% MF crafted jewel.

CONCLUSION: Of course, you have better chances to win the lottery than ever reaching max MF.

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That's all folks! If you have any questions or objections (in case I forgot to say something important or if wrote something incorrect) feel free to comment or contact me directly and changes shall be made.

Salut Salut Salut Salut Salut


Last edited by shenron276 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:24 pm; edited 13 times in total

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Re: MAGIC FIND (MF) MECHANICS

Post by x01001010 on Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:31 pm

Good idea, some people will definitely benefit from this.
Sent you a PM.

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Re: MAGIC FIND (MF) MECHANICS

Post by The Big Ouchy on Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:35 pm

Can we move this to tools and info and sticky the crap out of it so we never have to answer this question again with anything more than a link?

Also needs moar calculus.

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Re: MAGIC FIND (MF) MECHANICS

Post by Moasseman on Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:40 pm

Only thing I wanna nitpick about is "Let's say you have 300% MF. So, if item dropped (with 0% MF) had 10% chance to be unique, with 300% it would have 30% chance to be unique".

Since 300%MF is 300% increased chance, it would actually be a 40% chance to be unique (base 10% + 3 * base 10%)

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Re: MAGIC FIND (MF) MECHANICS

Post by GregMXL on Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:45 pm

Ok I moved this where it belongs. Solid job Shenron. Thumbs Up 

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Re: MAGIC FIND (MF) MECHANICS

Post by Aspirine101 on Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:52 pm

Nice one shenron ^^ cookie tomorrow

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Re: MAGIC FIND (MF) MECHANICS

Post by Will on Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:21 pm

Hopefully this helps with those questions we always hear Smile. GJ well structured m8

As for (rings/amulets/jewels) not being affected by this, are you talking about the rarity of such items? Or the drop rate of them as item-types.

If the former, can someone confirm? if it's the ladder then phew (Hate it when I miss something). May want to make this clear, but either way looks solid.

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Re: MAGIC FIND (MF) MECHANICS

Post by mahitovec on Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:35 pm

barb best champ
barb with less than 2k mf=trash

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Re: MAGIC FIND (MF) MECHANICS

Post by shenron276 on Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:57 am

Thank you guys for positive feedback Thumbs Up

@Moasseman wrote:Only thing I wanna nitpick about is "Let's say you have 300% MF. So, if item dropped (with 0% MF) had 10% chance to be unique, with 300% it would have 30% chance to be unique".

Since 300%MF is 300% increased chance, it would actually be a 40% chance to be unique (base 10% + 3 * base 10%)
Actually, this is not a mistake, because magic find towards rare/set/unique items isn't as linear as towards magic items, as it can be seen from diminishing returns picture... It was just an example of how it works... But, thanks for reading so carefully... Thumbs Up

EDIT: I changed the description (improved it, to be specific) for easier understanding, cause if veteran players like you forgot about the linearity, it's a doomsday for newbies... Very Happy So actually, thanks for saying... Thumbs Up


Last edited by shenron276 on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:28 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Grammar check :D)

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Re: MAGIC FIND (MF) MECHANICS

Post by MarcoNecroX on Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:15 am

Sorry to disappoint but many things you guys are talking are wrong :/ MF isn't something you can understand by using intuition / logic. In fact it it can't even be considered a percentage... There are a LOT of factors that decide the quality of an item (RNG included!).

To calculate whether an item will be magic, rare, set or unique, the game picks a number between 0 and X, and if this number is 127 or less, the item will be from that quality. How to calculate X?

X = |({(1/A - (mlvl - qlvl)/B)*128*(100/(100 + EMF))} - ({(1/A - (mlvl - qlvl)/B)*128*(100/(100 + EMF))}*C)/1024)|-1

Where everything between {} must be higher or equal to D. (Note: both {} have the same thing inside)

A= "base chance". It's 5(m), 20(r), 25(s), 150(u). These values are defined by the mod, and are always the same.
B= It's some sort of divisor. The values here are static in MXLU as well: 6(m), 5(r), 5(s), 1(u)
C= a value granted by the TreasureClass of the monster who is dropping the item. Variable.
D= It's some sort of cap, always static too: 256(m), 640(r), 640(s), 3000(u).
qlvl = Quality level. It's a static number defined by the exact item (like a Sacred Pike)
mlvl = Monster level. In hatred defined by the monster itself, in terror/dest defined by the area level (always 120, 123 for superunique monsters like Baal, Ancients, Crystal Ball from CoV, but NOT monsters from dark summoning, heroic levels, etc)

EMF= MF*Y/(MF+Y) where Y=250(u) Y=500(s) and Y=600(s) - not changable by modmaker unless CE.
The graphic shown in your thread ONLY explains EMF, which is ONLY A PART of the entire MF equation and thus doesn't represent how MF works at ALL. Hell, EMF doesn't even affect the formula as a basic factor or sum, so MF for magic items isn't linear, nor can you make basic assumptions on how double MF will affect your real chance to find unique items.


A: No. Also, MF doesn't affect: jewelery (rings/amulets/jewels)
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Q: Can I manually affect my MF chance?
A: Yes, you can increase it through console commands.
Plain wrong. Players 8 has nothing to do with MF. All it does is decreace the chance of NoDrop which is a value in each single treasureclass, meaning that in some cases it doesn't even do shit at all. Since treasureclasses are complex, NoDrop will not necessarily affect an entire TreasureClass, it might just affect it partially.

In THEORY, players 8 MAY increase the total amount of items dropped, depending on the place you are farming. An easy way to understand NoDrop is for example %based chances of uberquest charms and trophies. For example, let's take Tran Athulua sunstone of the gods 1/6 chance. This chance is generated thanks to NoDrop, thus, the bigger the player count, the more chance you have to get the charm, and the less chance you have of getting "nothing". This is NOT the same as trophies 1/50 static chance, because trophies don't use NoDrop. I have no idea why laz used NoDrop here, in MXLU, uldyssian uses Blank TC (the one trophies use) instead of NoDrop, so the chance will always be 1/2.


Last edited by MarcoNecroX on Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:04 am; edited 2 times in total

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