Some questions about barbarian

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Some questions about barbarian

Post by zaphodbrx on Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:09 am

Hi guys. I've been playing a barb over the last week. He is lvl 113 now, near the end of terror.
I would like some opinions about his skill build and items.

First off, my barb is a two handed axe wielding melee barb. I might change over to other builds but not now.

Skills

Melee tree

I put 1 point in each skill, as I understand that is what is recommended.

Earthquake: This is my main attack for now. It does magic damage. Since I am using SU Labrys ( Yaggai's Sagaris ), it procs stormblast as well. Question here: Do the two skills interfere with each other? It doesn't seem to, it makes a nice synergy.

Blood hatred: I'm not a dual wielder, will try it later though. Is there any other dual wielding skill? Also, does the decrease in resistance only work when you hit the target?

Thunder slam: I use this to stun enemies when in big mobs. Very helpful. By the way, does the timer ever go to 0 with enough skill level?

Shower of rocks: I use this vs bosses because of the higher weapon dmg modifier. Sometimes they die before the rocks even start falling,lol.

Stormblast: I used this as a skill at ~lvl 30, but I didn't like it, so went back to earthquake. However the SU labrys just procs this on every hit anyway. Question: If I use stormblast with SU labrys, will there be two stormblasts? Also, the description says that it converts 100% physical dmg to lightning. Does it mean that I will be doing no physical damage at all, so no leech + no damage vs lightning immune?

Stances

Lion stance: I used this till lvl 70 or so because of the enormous damage increase, but then I wasn't being able to survive much and switched to wolf stance. I guess it can be used endgame mainly by ranged barbs..

Snake stance: Poison? Didn't think it was very helpful.

Bear stance: Surprisingly this is the only barb skill to give DR%. I didn't use it yet but it might be good in some ubers.

Eagle stance: Regeneration? Hmm, I have potions.

Wolf stance: This is what I'm using currently. All the bonuses are nice, especially frw.

Throwing tree: none

Summon tree: none. Is any of them a worthwhile 1 pointer?

Neutral tree:

Wolves: I have 15 pts here ( 4 wolves ) and they cast doom. This is a big question for me: I can also get doom by using amulet proc or Deadman's hand. How good are the wolves for this build?

Ancients blood: I put 16 points here ( increases +max skill level and hp boost ) but I think this is a mistake, as now I am not smaxing any skill anyway.

Fortress: I thought of using it but it might take too much away from the melee theme. Question, does it get affected by stances?

Spirit guide: I put ~12 points here. It's good I guess but I've noticed that sometimes it takes a while for the bonus to come. Meaning that most of the time I am fighting without this bonus anyway ( I think? )

Mountain king: This seems to be like the stormlord ability of paladins but doesn't benefit from hard points. I put 10 pts here.

Uberskills

Nephalem weapons: This is what I picked as my uberskill and I'm quite disappointed with it. The damage increase is really low, duration is low too. Sometimes I'm playing for half an hour forgetting to cast it and not realizing the difference.

Rune master: This seems like an interesting ability, but I guess I'd have to socket runes in every slot to make full advantage of it. And I usually go for bloodstones/etc ( resistance increase ) or jewels. Question: Would a runeword count as only one rune socketed?

Shamanic trance: I guess this is for summoners.

Immortal: I put a bunch of points here but don't know how useful it is.. The bonus does apply while attacking, right? If only for standing still, it would be silly.

Thundergod: Didn't do BRC yet.

Oskills

Kraken stance: I crafted a helmet with +23 kraken stance and it says it does more elemental damage than Nephalem weapons! But currently I like moving fast so still using wolf stance.

Ancient's hand: I've heard good things about it. What does it do and how do I get it?

I'm looking for a good skillplan to suit my build, with special emphasis on combat skill, stance selection , uberskill and passives.

Current items:

Feel free to recommend anything, but I have not done much magic finding and thus have a limited stash of SUs and such. For example Akarat's trek is practically the only SU boot I have, same goes for SU labrys, etc.

SU Labrys
Deadman's hand
T6 deadfall ( will change to Truce RW later )
Akarat's Trek
Wanderkonig ( SU helmet )
Scales of the Serpent
Rare amulet with hymn proc ( how good is hymn? Or should I try something different? )
Rare rings.

Stats: Mostly in str, with some in dex and vita.

Thanks for reading and please comment!

zaphodbrx
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Re: Some questions about barbarian

Post by chickenfeeder on Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:52 pm

-just my personal opinion, barb isn't good at deal dmg, even if you got kraken from helm, kraken receives bonus dmg from your stance. And I completely against your thinking about snake and eagle stance, may be anyone could against it, snake slows 50% and eagle heals in 10s or less, never to be underestimated. snake is very very powerfull, espiecially when you have SOTS, you can get 300k psn in 6s if maxed snake and eagle, and morover it's much safer. You use 2h weapon, not shield so if you only look at dmg you won't be able to farm in many place. So my advise is, still max snake and eagle, or at least reach 50% slow, they increase dmg for kraken anyway, so you can snake- thunderslam to spread disease to all enemies in screen, this is the basic combat opening for any melee barb, then you can switch back to kraken and do anything you like with them, the timer can't go down to 3 but it's still good, 1 pts is enough. And more in spirit guide if possible. And don't hesitate to choose runemaster, nephalem is for thrower of fortresser, not for melee.
-next question is about melee skill? shower of rocks truly give more dmg, actually twice as much as stormblast, but if you use it and SB against 1 monster, no light immune ofc, you will see that SB kills it faster, shower of rocks is usually used to spread more psn dmg and slow from snake stance in a small area, I use it and overkill in dunc, and I can only say it's excellent, any not-psn-immune die after a hard time crawling out of the rocks area. And yes SB converts physical to lighting, leech is only counted for the first hit, not for 24 lighting hit afterward, but CB still works and can handle lighting immune.
-Ancient's hand is a melee skill that send out a flame path(a quake actually) through the enemy you hit with it, I tried it only 1 time, I think it works the same way with SB, but easier to controll since the path is a straight line, I don't remember if it convert dmg to any type, so may be it is more powerfull than SB in some ways.
-fortress carry your hand dmg, all your stances and proc on striking work on it, usefull and can be use as main skill, but since you choose melee, 1 pts is good.
-summon tree only has the last skill(forgot name) that worth 1 point, ignore it if you feel you can do anything alone.
-immortal increase hit recovery rate, and avoid when stand still, sound useless but it's so funny that aside from Sin's PB and Nec's deathward there's only this skill provide avoid (if I'm not wrong). It's usefull in some danger situation, i.e when you a surronded and blink hasn't cooldown, or in kingdom of shadow.

P/s: go do brc, thundergod is awesome, just like a mini thunderslam, the only trial that take times is blood, but it's worth the risk, get it and enjoy Very Happy

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Re: Some questions about barbarian

Post by MUS01 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:45 pm

If you have Yaggai's Safaris, you're losing time using Earthquake. Craft a barbarian helm with Ancient's Hand oskill and you got a very powerfull build... Usually the maxed skills are BS, (defense, damage, %DR) runemaster, SG, and NW. In game you can permause Ancient's hand as main skill, and SB for Bosses (dual stormblast?? Yeah plz) Ofc, best option is barbarian crafted helm with KS and Ancient's hand oskill, however, I think is nearly impossible to get 1, so you must take a decision...and having SB as proc, you're losing damage going to KS.

Lastly, you can max the wolves, and with a TTAD jewel, the DOOM can be really sick... Still, isn't necessary, cause you're multihiting too much with SB and AH....

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Re: Some questions about barbarian

Post by The Big Ouchy on Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:07 pm

Faerie fire, crane stance, and warp armor also give avoid. You cannot put points in nephalem weapons and runemaster at the same time nor can you get any craft or rare to spawn with 2 oskills. Doom doesn't work with stormblast because it doesn't do any physical damage (ttad may fix this?) so wolves would indeed be a waste. And yes get thundergod, it gives free lightning damage and free stun novas so even 1 point is nice.

Runewords count as one rune cuz u only have 1 rune.

Stormblast proc will not interfere with other attack skills. If u use stormblast you will still proc the other one. Blood hatred gives u -enemy resists on anything you hit any enemy with (spells too).

You cannot permasturn with thunderslam. Eagle stance regen is good cuz it stacks with potions and because ureh exists.

Wolves doom can do about 8k damage end game iirc.

Protector spirits are a nice 1 pointer for the bloodlust buff but Idk if it's worth the extra skill switching.

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Re: Some questions about barbarian

Post by zaphodbrx on Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:31 pm

Ok I'll try ancient's hand oskill with bear stance and rune master.

Doom doesn't take damage from stormblast? What about earthquake ( because the missiles are all magic damage right )? So I guess ttad is mandatory, I'll try to get it on a rare ammy. What would be a good proc for the ammy? Currently I'm using one with hymn but the duration seems to be really low.

P.S. What you mean by Kraken stance is boosted by your stance?

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Re: Some questions about barbarian

Post by The Big Ouchy on Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:01 pm

Earthquake is 100% physical and only adds extra magic damage on top of that so doom will work with it. Doom works as a flat lowered physical resistance so physical damage does more damage. Since stormblast is 100% lightning you don't do physical damage to benefit from doom.

Kraken stance has an unwritten synergy from when it was an uber skill. Points in other stances increase the damage of kraken stance which sort or naturally lends itself to a build where you max snake stance and eagle stance. You use snake stance and thunder slam to spread slow and poison and then switch to kraken stance and proceed to destroy everything. Eagle stance is nice heals and also boosts snake stance and kraken stance. Hooray synergy!

I'd say that hymn and banish are your two best options for amulet procs.

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Re: Some questions about barbarian

Post by chickenfeeder on Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:31 am

@zaphodbrx wrote:Ok I'll try ancient's hand oskill with bear stance and rune master.

Doom doesn't take damage from stormblast? What about earthquake ( because the missiles are all magic damage right )? So I guess ttad is mandatory, I'll try to get it on a rare ammy. What would be a good proc for the ammy? Currently I'm using one with hymn but the duration seems to be really low.

P.S. What you mean by Kraken stance is boosted by your stance?
Kraken receives a small bonus %dmg for each point you put in any of your stances. doom "gives more physical dmg", meaning any hit that has physical dmg will do more dmg. Earthquake should only be used to spread debuff, it doesn't multihit, compare to it even shower of rocks is much better. Hymn is kinda rare to roll, but it gets you a huge buff.

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Re: Some questions about barbarian

Post by grimjerk on Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:32 am

Or go Lion stance and use Stormblast as your main attack. The conversion has no effect on magic damage. 20 hard points in Lion Stance +1000 base points of strength = 10000-15000 damage. Take the multi hitting nature of your now doubled up Stormblast..........and Stormblast has no ND which is the problem with EQ

The -25% DR isn't that hard to overcome.

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Re: Some questions about barbarian

Post by zaphodbrx on Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:53 am

Ok let's see: I crafted a barb helm with ancient's hand and also got bear stance with max rune master and spirit guide. The result is:



1.9 million defense! Is that awesome or what.

So how exactly does rune master work? Because it doesn't seem to be giving as much of a bonus as bear stance and spirit guide. The rune master tooltip reads "21 % bonus defense per rune", so with 26 runes in gear, that's 567% defense. Bear stance and spirit guide have around 450% defense each, but they seem to give much more defence. With just runemaster, my def is about 260k. Adding bear stance boosts it to 900k, and when around wolves it becomes 1.7M

I tried unequipping and requipping items but didn't help much. Btw, how many times do we have to unequip and requip items for the runemaster bonus to apply?

Next: I understand that earthquake is not a multi hit skill but stormblast and ancient's hand are ( btw ancients hand seems to be a fire version of stormblast? ) Multi hit skills trigger the doom proc every time they hit. BUT, since they do pure fire or lightning damage, we need ttad to trigger the doom damage. Right?

I rolled a new ammy with banish proc, +2 skills and ttad. Is there any visual graphic for banish curse on enemies?

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Re: Some questions about barbarian

Post by archon256 on Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:56 am

Runemaster gives TCD per socketed rune. The check is made when you equip an item, so you'll have to re-equip every item you have that has socketed rune/s at the start of every game and whenever you die.

@zaphodbrx wrote: BUT, since they do pure fire or lightning damage, we need ttad to trigger the doom damage. Right?
It's uncertain. I think so, but TTAD used to be bugged and not work with any ranged attacks. It might have been fixed since then. You could test it out. The problem is you'd need to apply the Doom and not have the wolf trigger it with its melee attacks so you can be sure. The easiest way would be to use a respecced sin with no ways to cast Doom on a zombie in D. Blood Moor /p8 and count how many normal throws with a knife it takes to kill the zombie with and without TTAD.

@zaphodbrx wrote: Is there any visual graphic for banish curse on enemies?
Yeah, wavy blue lines rising off the top of the enemies.

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