Some thoughts and questions from a long-time Median player

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Re: Some thoughts and questions from a long-time Median player

Post by Metalistas on Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:02 am

A. You are framing yourself with this. You will have less time to try out different builds. For example i want to try bow druid, summon barb, totem necro and melee sorc. But i just have no time for them at all. And that is with recipe to restat.
B. Some builds won't even reach the end game. Is there quality time playing when you know you won't be able to kill this/that and progress further. But you will get that one specific charm , great ....
C. Following the mind the trading, plugy and muling should also be forbidden. Because it gives so much quality when you finally get your class items.
D. Don't bring sigma here, we talk about now, not far future.
E. You can play without restat already. You don't like that others restat ?

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Re: Some thoughts and questions from a long-time Median player

Post by otaru1921 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:54 am

I don't really like the idea of removing respecs.

Don't have time to redo an entire char and spend 30-70+ hours just to get to the endgame again. I have other things to do and other games to play dude.

And I used Plugy to respec stats on previous versions of Median anyway.

Respecing is optional, if you don't like it then don't do it. But for those who like it it changes the game for better like when you do mistakes on your build or you don't understand the mechanics completely yet.
Remove Respec and people will flock to the build that can beat everything because they don't want to make mistakes since they can't fix without recreating the character.`

I played a failed Bombsin on a previous version, I was able to complete many uberquests with what I had, but the SU / Set Items I needed to complete my build never dropped for me, so I was stuck. If I had respec I could change to a spec that used the other items I had that are useful for like melee assassin or throwsin.
But I didn't think about Respecing because I wanted to play Bombsin, in the end I gave up playing Median for a while and deleted my diablo 2 / char. Which now I think is a mistake because I started playing again recently.

Also I think respec encourages thinking, if you don't copy the winning build from strategy guides, you can analyse the challenges of each uberquest and try to come up with your own solution, changing items, skills, stats as needed.

On a game with so much challenge as Median, removing the ability to redo / change your build to adapt your mistakes means that you will lose hundreds of hours remaking your characters from zero to beat those challenges, unless you copy someone's cookie cutter strategy.


Last edited by otaru1921 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Some thoughts and questions from a long-time Median player

Post by romanN1 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:59 am

I'd like to see some situations like "Ups, I put up 1 more skill point/atribute over what I needed. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU"...No. Removing respec isn't ok.

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Re: Some thoughts and questions from a long-time Median player

Post by kaziq on Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:10 pm

@romanN1 wrote:I'd like to see some situations like "Ups, I put up 1 more skill point/atribute over what I needed. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU"...No. Removing respec isn't ok.

I had this twice, so I agree. Another solution is to make backups of your saves before every skill tree touch.

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Re: Some thoughts and questions from a long-time Median player

Post by Quirinus on Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:53 pm

just give a limited amount of respecs, like 10
and maybe after that make it require a really expensive recipe, like cubing all the character tokens together or cubing a kabraxis rune, or something like that

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Re: Some thoughts and questions from a long-time Median player

Post by MUS01 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:20 pm

@kaziq wrote:
@romanN1 wrote:I'd like to see some situations like "Ups, I put up 1 more skill point/atribute over what I needed. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU"...No. Removing respec isn't ok.

I had this twice, so I agree. Another solution is to make backups of your saves before every skill tree touch.

Basically, if you remove respec option, you're limiting the played characters in game. Why? Cause some builds can't do many uberquest. More in that: certain characters, barbs, for example, can't fight his ground v/s play assasin. Many ubers are class biased(maybe assasin?), and the casual players will greatly suffer this effect. Casual player choose all around builds, cause they have limited time for playing the game(real life issues, weak will, etc), so make a slow game(someone remember the FARMING stage?) still more slow isn't a good idea. Specially in MP cause SP we will still have Plugy.

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Re: Some thoughts and questions from a long-time Median player

Post by otaru1921 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:38 pm

@Quirinus wrote:just give a limited amount of respecs, like 10
and maybe after that make it require a really expensive recipe, like cubing all the character tokens together or cubing a kabraxis rune, or something like that

I am ok with that and I am against the idea of giving permanent penalties for respecing ( Like losing 5 atribute per respec like someone said ).

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Re: Some thoughts and questions from a long-time Median player

Post by archon256 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:30 pm

@Metalistas wrote:
D. Don't bring sigma here, we talk about now, not far future.
I was never talking about now, this was always in relation to Sigma or as an alternative option that we could have chosen years ago.
Removing unlimited respec is a huge change, and shouldn't be done without many other changes.

And I was never asking for respecs to be removed entirely, just that they should come with a significant cost so that you think twice before respeccing just to complete one uber.

Cheers.

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Re: Some thoughts and questions from a long-time Median player

Post by The Big Ouchy on Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:59 pm

Make signet of learning from set items worth 5 attribute points. Char loses all atributes on respec. Fixed (not really).

The whole "this char can't do many ubers" mentality is a little unsettling though. Barring certain things like laz where 90% of the skills in the game do little or nothing to help you, most of the builds in this game are surprisingly capable. The problem is no one bothers to get that far with the build they're working on because somebody already did it better with another char. Why think when someone else already did it for you?

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Re: Some thoughts and questions from a long-time Median player

Post by Mitsunari on Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:33 pm

Back to the original topic somewhat: kaziq, you are correct in that the game is a bit harder for a bowazon. I started both clean bowies in SP and later in MP and it's pretty much a deadbody tossing game until i started getting better gear. Even still i'm pretty much dead half the time. But I also still make a weapon switch for summoning high-life Elementals + make use of edyrems for temp decoys. That may by you some time or end up getting you killed faster sadly.

I put zons in the assassin category for myself- oh sure they're strong and so needed 34896896 nerfs (rofl) throughout median's days, but now it's more like they are in the end-category of a class to play. I find Sorcs and Bow-druids to be much more untwinked friendly. I love my Bowazon, and love changing her build between wyrmshot or phalanx/barrager. I actually like switching between Paragon AND Curare myself. But you are pretty much set up to be a glass cannon, and sadly for me the mediocre mid-game gear will leaves you with barely 50k defense- my resists were over 400 though, so that greatly helped. Although I can complete most easy ubers and summons, pretty much the same i've always been able to do since i just don't have the patience/endurance for the uberhardcore1337meltyourfacetoyourballsoff uber/summons..

MXL:U is harder than some of Laz's incarnations. Bowazon is still strong but will probably be the biggest dead body trail leaver. Having good reflexes and the mentality of a paranoid schizophrenic TO NEVER STOP MOVING EVER OMG NOT EVEN IN TOWN CAUSE THEY WILL KILL YOU.. you'll find you may need coffee, or crack, to keep up with it. At least that is my opinion. Still like the class, but I switched to a Sorc to be able to mellow out a bit on constant omfg CAIN IS STILL HARASSING ME *twitchtwitchtwitch*

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As for this respec thing.. I think the mentality these days is we need it, in almost EVERY game now. There are those who use it to correct a screw up.. computer lag/or net leg causing you to drop 1-2 extra points on accident. Or even a wonky mouse that insists on double clicking for you randomly. Removing it won't make it easier to balance ubers for most builds- if that was the case that would of been fact pre 1.13c Median days and frankly they still told you to roll a new character or eventually using the respec tool. At least the latter you still kept the character you worked hard on in hopes to finish something in a different build. I don't think it takes away from it, just allows you to utilize your character in different situations.

If rolling tons of characters is your thing, a respec isn't stopping you from doing so. Majority will ALWAYS gun for a cookie-cutter- with/without respec. Balance issues will never be solved, ever. Kind of like cheating won't always be squelched, even if you think you've taken every precaution to prevent it.

Making it more expensive? Eh, doesn't really matter- if people need it or can't live with out it they'll just still use it even if it means a little extra farming... and people who are against it will still complain cause it's still there. But making it psycho (Kabraxis rune..) is overkill and at that stage of thinking you may of just remove it entirely.

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