POE vs Diablo III

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Re: POE vs Diablo III

Post by archon256 on Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:04 am

PoE has some advantages over MXL. There's a very active hardcore community with their own ladder and the staff seems to put in a lot of effort to remove bullshit deaths through patches. In MXL it's more just something people do without any specific changes being made to facilitate hardcore play.

There's also a lot of race events where you play with a new hardcore character and try to level up as quickly as possible without dying with rewards for the top players of each class. Makes for a fun alternative to the usual grind.

Also it gets updated very frequently (usually every 2 weeks), with each update adding a new skill, new uniques and/or rebalancing of old skills.

I still play it from time to time when a new patch comes out, but I'm not interested in grinding (which is a big part of the game, this can be an advantage or disadvantage for you) so I don't play it for long.

I think I stopped playing D3 bout a month after it came out, lost interest quickly.
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Re: POE vs Diablo III

Post by zerger on Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:12 am

MXL was never intended to be played in HC
And playing PoE in HC with all those desync issues...Quite a risky bet

Give a new try to D3, it has evolved a lot. It is far to be perfect but much more interesting
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Re: POE vs Diablo III

Post by Will on Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:53 pm

Zerger point 1 is not correct... Maybe MXLU you have a point. It was intended for both and back when I remember there were a lot closer of a HC/SC split in MXL before ultimative.

And give d3 a try? After the brilliance stoya espoused NO WAY! In serious though my Sis boyfriend who also teaches (at UC Berkeley...he's a 24 year old prodigy physicist) has more of a chance and I've said nooooooo.

Very Happy

Seriously though Stoya, you (and my hawt Turkish prof colleague) are making me like your country a lot more with posts like that Smile.

I gave my cookie to Marco for witty remark. Tomorrow goes to you! Especially poignant observations on Path of Exile without having started early like my sorry ass.

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Re: POE vs Diablo III

Post by Borgin on Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:00 pm

The best thing about HC in Path of Exile is that if your character dies, it's migrated from the HC server to the standard one. So death isn't really permanent- anything good you've accumulated, you still keep, but you're booted from the HC server. This is an awesome system, because the biggest gripe/concern about HC is losing everything- with this system all you lose is your progress (which is still most of your work), but you keep your items as a consolation prize.

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Re: POE vs Diablo III

Post by MarcoNecroX on Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:08 pm

Borgin wrote:The best thing about HC in Path of Exile is that if your character dies, it's migrated from the HC server to the standard one. So death isn't really permanent- anything good you've accumulated, you still keep, but you're booted from the HC server. This is an awesome system, because the biggest gripe/concern about HC is losing everything- with this system all you lose is your progress (which is still most of your work), but you keep your items as a consolation prize.

If that's true, then PoE does not have HC like you guys said

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Re: POE vs Diablo III

Post by archon256 on Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:04 pm

zerger wrote:MXL was never intended to be played in HC
Absolutely. While PoE was, which is why I mentioned it as a plus.

zerger wrote:And playing PoE in HC with all those desync issues...Quite a risky bet
True, but thousands of people do it every day. There are ways to minimize desync if you play carefully, and GGG have retained the ability to quit the game immediately if you recognize you've desync'd badly into a dangerous scenario.

zerger wrote:Give a new try to D3, it has evolved a lot. It is far to be perfect but much more interesting
Nah, I'll pass. I've seen the new features, it doesn't have anything I want.

MarcoNecroX wrote:
Borgin wrote:The best thing about HC in Path of Exile is that if your character dies, it's migrated from the HC server to the standard one. So death isn't really permanent- anything good you've accumulated, you still keep, but you're booted from the HC server. This is an awesome system, because the biggest gripe/concern about HC is losing everything- with this system all you lose is your progress (which is still most of your work), but you keep your items as a consolation prize.

If that's true, then PoE does not have HC like you guys said
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/812127

The majority of HC players delete their characters once it's migrated to standard. There are lots of reasons for this, so let me explain a bit.

There are two types of leagues, permanent leagues and temporary (2 month) leagues. These are again divided into softcore and hardcore. When the temporary leagues end, the characters get migrated to the permanent leagues (SC to SC, HC to HC). If a HC character in the HC temporary league dies, it gets migrated to the permanent SC league.

The SC permanent league has a very different economy from the HC temporary one, obviously. Permanent league where all the characters drain to vs. temporary league that started <2 months ago where items get lost when characters die.
Playing your HC char in the SC league also means that you're no longer on the HC ladder. This is a huge deal if you're at the top, and even more so if you're a popular streamer.
You also lose all the thrill of dying if you continue in the SC league, since deaths in the SC league have no penalty (aside from the steep XP loss at high levels). But if you make a new HC character you have to be careful of dying so you don't get dumped into the SC league.

It's actually a brilliant system, all the hardcore players get their HC experience and it's a neat way for casual players to enter the HC scene.
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Re: POE vs Diablo III

Post by Borgin on Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:32 pm

archon256 wrote:It's actually a brilliant system, all the hardcore players get their HC experience and it's a neat way for casual players to enter the HC scene.  
This exactly.

HC in D2 is fine, but I am not a gamer who enjoys that type of system. I do not like having all my progress eliminated, even if the journey is enjoyable and keeps me nail-biting the whole time. The frustration of losing everything far outweighs the fun I would have along the way.

Many players are not like this, I realize. So Path's system is perfect- I can play a HC character and get that adrenaline rush, but instead of losing everything, it is just migrated to the "drain server" as archon put it. What's funny is that everything on the permanent, softcore server, your stuff is basically worthless anyways. However, two main things- the fact I do not enjoy hardcore, and the fact I do not regularly play hardcore, make this system great because I can dabble in HC mode without feeling bad.

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Re: POE vs Diablo III

Post by MarcoNecroX on Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:04 pm

That's ridiculous, IMO.


First of all, let's start with the obvious. If one wants to keep their progress, they should play softcore. END. This is something that seems so hard to understand for so much people, in D2 as well. A true HC player doesn't ask for HC balance, he doesn't want HC to be easy. Because HC is about accepting the consequences and taking them as PART OF THE GAME. Not playing it with chicken hacks, not playing it for recognition. Those are posers. Recognition comes alone for HC players if they are able to succeed. The true HC player doesn't mention every 2 lines that he's playing HC. Because people know it already.

This said, from what I read on how PoE HC system works: it's extremely poser-based. The fact that the top HC players are deleting their characters after they die once, speaks for itself. With this system, everyone can basically jump into HC and after their first death they move to SC. If they plan to keep using the character on SC afterwards, why the fuck didn't they make the character in SC instead?

There is no adrenaline if you don't loose it all. Okay, let's be a bit more permitive for a bit. Let's assume there is a HC mode where you loose something, but not ALL, because even in D2, you can technically get looted. Loosing a ladder ranking? Are you honesly kidding? How the hell does that effect your playing in ANY way? That does NOT qualify as HC.


Seriously. HC is HC. There is a reason why a lot of people don't like it. And there's a reason why a lot of people love it. And there is a reason why you can choose ANY of those 2 when playing the game. Any person who feels he's not having enough fun in HC because of character loss, should simply NOT play HC! Shame on PoE using that word - they should rename it to posercore.

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Re: POE vs Diablo III

Post by powtek on Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:58 pm

HC is for adrenaline-loving players while SC is for players taking it nice and slow.


@Marco: Very well said. Cookie.
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Re: POE vs Diablo III

Post by Borgin on Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:20 am

I think Marco is just being fanboy-ish and not looking at the point of a game: to have fun.

Is there something wrong with letting more casual players enjoy hardcore without feeling ripped off when they die from lame server desync or lag or getting distracted or a bad mouseclick or even just playing stupidly? How does having HC characters "port" to SC change anything? You still have a server where every player is a HC character. It does NOTHING to the balance of the game.

It's also hilarious to me to hear you- the guy responsible for the new content in MXLU- say "A true HC player doesn't ask for HC balance", because that statement is just plain incorrect from a design standpoint. It's poor design to institute an unbalanced form of gameplay- or even an aspect of gameplay, especially in an online game with a real economy (D2 Iron Maiden mobs? I'm looking at you) I am honestly amazed at your narrowmindedness towards game design, especially after reading everybody espouse how awesome you are for revivifying Median. But perhaps such a short-sighted view is exactly what's necessary for modding D2, when the only players left are the people who are just the same as you. Because- and excuse me if I'm wrong- even most of the HC players left here continue to use hacks, exploit AI glitches or game bugs, twink heavily to new HC characters, or just use really fast save+exit BS to avoid death. Using these sorts of shortcuts and workarounds speaks volumes about the "balance" of HC, if you ask me.

Also, to "defend" Path a little: like archon said, there are a bunch of different leagues that exist. Having your character ported to the SC "basic" league makes everything worthless; it just means that newer players can try out HC without having their items deleted. And since many HC players simply delete their characters anyways, it winds up pretty much being D2's system but better. Face it- you want people to play your game, and you want people to experience all your content (it keeps them p(l)aying, obviously). So if a person only plays a single softcore character and moves on, they are missing out on a lot of content and you, as a designer, are missing out on keeping that person playing. The devs want people to keep playing. Thus, each league has a few special items, a few special races/events/tournaments, and people continue to enjoy the game- and GGG gets to keep milking players.

Sure, moving HC characters to SC is essentially a money grab, as it keeps casual players enjoying the "tough" content (without feeling ripped off). But honestly from the design side of things, it's a brilliant move for even more reasons than what I've described above.

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