Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

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Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by iwansquall on Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:55 am

Hi everyone, as I mentioned in my MedianXL XV plans, I feel like I want to give first impressions considered that I have not been with scene for such long time. Last build that I kinda focused alot was Triefling Form sin, which I tried combine ATMG with doom and high CB.


Disclaimer:
Im probably already rusty when playing median (heck, im not even that good back then), so I kinda struggled to reach lvl 24. You can take my feedback as one of new casual player when they started playing median. This mean that player are not upgrade their gear, maxing wrong stats, and etc. I also crank up to players 8 so that I can reach lvl 24 much faster, although I admitted that I some skill balance are whacked and some encounter are much tougher (smith for example). I also have read Marco's thread about skill design & decision, so I might not cover on particular parts. Without further ado, I will go through each class.



Amazon
After seeing the tree design, I was hoping either "two-hand sword amazon" or "no-faction-zon" gonna made here, but I guess it didnt happen. While lightning is fine as well as some WDM in the tree, I still think that limiting the skill setup to "sceptre-only" is a big no no. I could make blood-lightning hybrid, but I was kinda hoping to combine with other WDM tree as well.


Thundercrack :
A melee sceptre skill... like why? Pally have melee weapon requirement, what wrong with poking with spear or javelin? Maybe it feel too close to cLoD counterpart. I dunno if this skill effective in crowd like Tempest (sorc lightning skill), but overall this skill feel lackluster.

Stormcall :
Best skill EVAR!! Well, not really. Copy-carbon for apocalypse I guess. Dual-damage skill is always nice, I wonder why not many other skill have it.

Hammer of Zerae :
Rejoice, Hammer-di..zon. I dislike the skill badly because the skill function. How many hits-per-second-per-cast can the skill do? Unless you cranking up the lightning up to GODLY value, I cant see how people can enjoy to use this skill. Remember, sceptre have weaker WDM itemization, by right the skill should be OP against both single target and large crowd (same reason I hate to use them in Diablo3).

Asterism :
Nice passive design overall. There is some problem though, unlike other class %avoid will cause amazon to use "dodge-animation" which is slow. It probably need more testing, but this among reason why there are ZERO %avoid gears on amazon. Defensive harmony might trigger first and allow you to dodge it without needing the animation, but still need more testing on this "avoid on amazon" thingy.

Magnetic Field :
Nope, regardless what Marco said, I tried at lvl 24 to kill mob in Blood Moor. It just.... too weak. Unless the skill really have 25-hits-per-second mechanic, skill deal too little damage. Not even 500 lightning damage help at clvl 24 for some reason. Remember, amazon have TONS of other skill that delivering alot of hits per second (bow and javelin tree). Sceptre requirement mean less weapon choice for offensive purpose and most shield-proc already doable with javazon.


Overall, thematic wise it is fine. It just need some tweak here and there. There are still option for utility / crowd control skill as well.



Assassin
I always assasin skill tree design are terrible (after removal of pre-meditation i think) but she remained as one of favourite for good players. Im really looking forward dual-wield sin design and how Marco want to tackle the problem with super-slow-attack-animation of it.


Backstab :
Really? Weak-sauce with high timer at low level. It is not even strong like most timered spell. Even seismic field have only 4 second timer at start. To be honest, I dunno about giving a skill that give 100% avoid for short time. You need to balance skill between slow naginata and super-fast claw(same like barrierstrike..problem) for a utility skill. I think better to put barrierstrike in ninja and give claw tree something new (in case you to push for more dual-claw build)

Shadow Dancer :
OMFG, you can buff / adjust value for innate skill? Then why isnt bloodbath go straight to dual-claw build? It was a skill that added to pleased dual-claw nostalgia.

Noctule :
Nanananananana BATMAN! Mechanic wise, skill doesnt look much interesting. It feel like broadside that shoot bats toward nearby enemy. Maybe I havent test much of it, skill description sound like "bat-trap". Nevertheless, skill look plain without bigger BANG!

Obliteration :
Seem ok-ish skill to me. Look gorgeous, but feel still not to "shatter the flesh" awesome. I dunno problem with its AoE or something else. Usage wise, I still use more Seismic Field and Psionic Storm. Maybe can be change to stun enemy... maybe.


I personally havent tried much of the skill redesign for assassin. I think layout is fine (aside for backstab thingy). Bloodbath should change IMO, it couldve fit nicely to dual-wield and give assassin some nice utility skill for innate skill.



Barbarian
Same like assassin, new dual-wield tree. Unlike assassin, dual-wield with barbarian is super fast (both attacking and casting speed). Barbarian already strong class since old median, but now it moved toward more option for dual-wield (back then they only got cautious strike). Question now, how will marco deal with dealing WDM from offhand on dual-wield skill.

Iron Spiral :
Mechanic wise seem like bloodthorn, but not piercing. So far usage is quite good at low level. Especially you get decent AoE skill are clvl 6. I kinda hate the sound they made (very high pitch) but it is fit with the graphic.

Deathgaze :
Best skill of MedianXL XV IMO. Projectile count, speed and re-targeting feel too good, I personally think it is OP (maybe because of Lion stance). Axe-only is kinda limiting the build, but I understand the Marco idea.

Daedalus :
Daedalus broke the mold that "useful skill shouldnt be in battle tree". Nothing bad about it, but Im pretty sure people will just super max it. Adding synergies to blood hatred is nice. I kinda disagree giving barb more flat-life bonus though, he got ancient blood and high life per vita already.

Windform :
Nostalgia skill. People dont understand the limitation of whirlwind that it is terrible in game like MedianXL where there are many crowd to kill and this kill offered weak AoE. Thankfully it is "walk through enemy" and balanced by dealing high poison and life on striking. That way he can still proc couple after kill (i believe WW doesnt trigger on-attack or on-striking, maybe Im wrong)

Iceburst :
At low level, this got to be a ..... boring plain skill mechanic to me. I mean it look like stormblast that deal cold damage with some debuff component. It was freaking short.. but Im sure it gonna length with higher slvl. HEY! At least it got nice hard point synergies.


Barbarian already become a monster with dual-wield tree. I still disagree about passive placement and the new Iceburst new skill. There are still some other interesting function Marco can use (dual-throw) but that probably only my personal wish.



Druid
So after many year of not having werewolf form (it was available from wearing a RW in median2008), we finally get it now. I kinda like them with rabies and those zeal-clone skill which emphasize speed and hit-n-run playstyle. Lets see if it he same.

Werewolf Form :
Werewolf form by stats, seem to give weak bonus and have "must-max-skill-for-bonus" synergies. Not sure how deadly strike work now in MedianXL (it was removed because of worried of reaching damage cap), will it affect only physical damage or spell as well, need to be tested it out.

Mana Pulse :
Finally concept of resource generator came to MedianXL (heavily used in Diablo3). Just like in Diablo3, viability of the skill in term of "should people use a single target weak skill once awhile" will affect overall killing speed? MedianXL have other class with "single-target with buff" already, but unlike other, you need to constant use skill to regen decent mana for you main skill. Overall, I think this skill need something more (hard point synergies maybe).

Harbringer :
Really not fan of this skill. It got timer at low level, mobility like pounce, but with non-piercing missiles. Sound like good for single target, but it isnt. It is not effect AoE killer either (at least at low level). So I dislike the skill .. alot.

Feed the Pack :
Free reanimate is good (how the hell Marco managed to do that Laz couldnt do in the past). Their proc seem not notice-able. Only "tree-breaking" thingy here is the passive is useable with other druid tree which not available at other morph tree. Probably it is technical limitation (my theory that there is untargetable invisible ghost follow you around giving reanimate and LaeK).

Twister Claw :
Simply said, worst looking skill. Maybe I dislike huge stationery twister that seem not doing anything. This skill seem supposed to be the answer for "single target killer", but so far, Im not sure if that the case. Maybe I should try Aegipan RW instead.


Playing werewolf from clvl1 to clvl24 is the worst (much terrible than quill rat). From skill line up clvl1 passive, clvl6 utility, clvl12 timered skill, clvl18 ok-ish passive, and clvl24 big f useless twister. I even switch to treewarden that speed up leveling tenfold (treewarden castspeed, wildfire and poisonflash OP). So right now, sadly to say werewolf was boring class to play even it have nice concept behind it.



Necromancer
As my char name above state, I wish for more direct damage skill with necro that can be use with LMB. I know you can use various oskill at high level, but I still want to know potential at low level rather using Apoc oskill

Boneyard :
Im sorry Marco, but player in past the HATED the skill mechanic design (frozen crown was one of them). The skill should be able to deal on single target, but should require some aiming (like warforged shaman's maelstrom). The graphic also not clear on how many time it trigger the sparkle. I even try to shoot to wall, but it is really not effective (limpet lazer much more effective for example). So, I totally dislike the mechanic (I think there was scattershot in the past also but not many people like it)

Funeal Pyre :
Seem like rain of fire mechanic. I understand the idea of giving skill for heroic killer, although I think necro need more burst rather overtime-increasing-damage skill. I think graphic is neat and super creepy, but I not too sure about killing speed with it.

Rotting Flesh :
Finally some soul shatter cousin mechanic. Effective seem ok, although I wish it spawn at target rather than at player feet (yes i know it was technical limitation). I havent proper test either the skill pierce or not (doesnt not make sense for poison skill not pierce though, except scorpion blade maybe). But design wise, it should be reward since you need to use 2 cast for the spell (summon and unsummon).

Nightwalker :
Trolololol. I said to give some passive like poison reduction in past for soft scaling of Talon's Hold, but instead we got it with new passive instead. Laz removed most of %dmg for spell in the spell in the past because it was OP (and doesnt make sense if you can remember the reason) but now we have passive that effectively improve all skill. Not that it is bad, just need to check on very late game. Finally some %avoid on totem which is badly needed, but I doubt this will help necro against hardest uberlevel though.

Pestilence :
OMG, this skill look awesome. Although Im pretty sure it was Armageddon/Hurricane but with poison damage. It seem much more effective than Hive in term of spreading the poison damage. The only question though, this seem like a state for player, but there isnt any hard point synergies on this skill at all.


Overall necro seem got some nice addition, and you still can combine with other tree for hybrid build. Totem and summon still remained powerful at low level, I dunno feel anything new much from necro.



Paladin
I didnt test much dragon-paladin at older patch so I feel like I need more info when testing the skill. And since the skill design is kinda mirror to each other, I cant list all new skill here like other classes.

Vessel of Judgement/Retribution and both passive :
Im sorry, I feel like I cant accept both skill design being like almost same and needing 2 skill slot each influence. Probably there were some technical limitation, but I believe you can look back couple of old median skill and rework them add them here. I still wonder how many states used for both influece by seem like they using same states (same with sacred armor and demiurge). These probably big question mark and wasted of skill slots for me in the new patch.

Hoplite :
Overall look nice since they are no longer have the char-black colour. I kinda hoping for them to use retaliate since it already taken by Defender Spirit. Same goes to inner fire proc (they belong to fire elemental~~). I feel prefer some other crowd control, as it seem that it is balanced because 5 summon limit.

Euphoria :
Guitar rift!. Seem like make pally life easier to reach -199% enemy resist. But since this a bonus buff, I wonder why didnt make it passive and people doesnt need brain to use it. Not like it using tactical buff or something not available on passive.

Demiurge :
Graphic look like sacred armor. Bonus wise, seem it look like Stormlord. My problem? Big ass timer with super-short duration. Not sure if the buff are really imba, but it couldnt balanced around give much weaker bonus but less punishing timer. (seem like the pattern of giving player nice buff with timer...).

Dragon knight :
I played holy pally heavily since old time until the radiance concept. While I really like the concept, but I still feel that this class feel weaker. Maybe it have to do with old powerful brimstone and ring of light. I still dont understand concept behind Deva King (seem like melee-caster hybrid) but isnt clear why should people play it compared to heavy weapon manly-din. The only non-spamming spell for them are the effective demonrend, but still not sure about attack speed (at high level mainly).

Big major problem I have with holy caster is how weak he feel especially with all energy, fast cast rate and limited manapool. I dunno what made that he feel lackluster than other caster class despite high dmg on LCS. I feel terrible waiting for energy regen, and only skill that effective damage/mana/per cast ratio is demonrend alone, he need mana regen bonus on passive badly.



Sorceress
One of the class where I looking forward for XV especially it obviously clear that she need both mana tree and melee tree badly. There was even melee set which broke the mold of "4 sets for each class" mold.

Immersion :
Sweet skill. Although it doesnt have dual-dmg like arcane torrent, mechanic wise it seem like it hit 25 frames per second (wildfire for example). Anyway, it doesnt deal "once per frame" like arcane torrent, which should be good for boss-killer.

Antimass :
I have been theorycrafted on how to make this work (like 1 frame mana drain debuff), but I guess Marco did. Although I wish some nuke spell rather a heal (sorc have cookie), but I guess it work effectively well with witchblood uber. Not sure if timer can go low enough though, but at least mana tree doesnt have timer in it (10 pt wonder mana sweep~~).

Wraithsword :
Err, not sure about the graphic. One of the problem when design melee sorc skill is "It must not have nextDelay" since it will overlapped with warp sword AoE. I kinda hoping for more utility / mobility speed for sorc since she lacking on that part, but i guess with moonstrike in the tree, utility is not possible. So... mobility please? (I forgot about baneblade when typing this..)

Fusillade :
Pirate sorc. I dunno what about ranged skill Marco talking about, but Im fairly sure people are asking for something like ranged "constant use" WDM skill like bow-oskill or throwing-oskill. Not much to except this will be first "reduce target seek range". Seem like awesome melee sorc at high level.

Summon Blade Spirits :
This summon have been tested heavily by me at low level. Damage wise seem ok, and proc seem good despite sorc not having enough %ED for damage (except fire dance). It still puzzled me with that tantrum-arrowside-took-from-athulua-thingy.

Overall sorc have been much more interesting to play since she can effective handle elemental immune and both ranged and melee playstyle. However, melee-staff are still not viable and orb+shield seem doesnt get much love I think.




Before I end this long read thread, some of the word might sound whiny and personal but I just voiced my personal opinion which Im seeing myself as new player from casual player perspective. Some of the wording might have different tones since I wrote these within 4 hours excluding the 1 hour progress I lost before.

I doubt this will change Marco heart but I hope at least one people to get good info before jumping to the Realm incase they still havent play the "peasant-SP" side.

Thank you for reading, have a nice day.

*Writing long first impression thread - Checked.
**Next, level up one class to 120.

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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by sirus628 on Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:16 am

Awesome, Druid review was way too on point. Hope SOMEONE takes notice to another player that has played since 2008.

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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by sastasior on Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:59 am

I miss Laz :/
This mod dont know char balance at all lol (who even say about :The Balance")
But sorc kinda strong and Ama kinda erm let say i die like pig compare to sorc Very Happy

But any way Awesome  review

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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by sirus628 on Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:04 pm

It was and is not about balance, it is about skill and build.

Some builds just happen to not be set up for success. This is a huge rework to the mod and things like druid need huge feedback, there was not a lot of testing by the right people.

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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by titan015 on Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:08 pm

I 100% agree to all of your points. I was about to make a topic same as this but is hesistant because it will just be dismissed coming from a nobody like me. So it had someone reputable to start such discussion.

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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by vincanthofred on Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:24 pm

I read all of it and I agree with you almost 100%

I feel like iron spiral is maybe too weak, maybe give it pierce or something, it really doesn't hit that often for 1/2 damage

daedalus is cool but they wouldn't need it if the barbarian skills were changed

I think barbarians are in a horrible state right now, almost every skill is a one point wonder and most skills have really boring old mechanics, iceburst is lame, a copy of stormblast but with cold, stormblast was already boring so it's pretty disappointing. I think the whole melee tree except thunder slam needs a lil rework, like, hard skill points synergy and such. thunder slam not being hard skill point self synergy is fine or else everybody would smaxit.

stances are also in a meh spot right now, I had an idea where stances had a synergy with all melee skills and you could only pick one stance(change stances) and different stances give a different effect to skills per hard point (improving as you level stance)

I think the wolf companion is a bad mechanic, the ai is meh and the spirit guide passive is also very limiting and frankly, I hate it.

summons are not in my fun group so I haven't tried.throwing is fine though.

I'd change runemaster, maybe nerf it and switch it with a black road/ennead skill and make immortal better or give thunder god as a uber skill, sounds good to me



but honestly I think the problem is also itemization, one handed swords,axes,maces and barb weapons(one handed) TU pretty much suck even bul kathos is really slow

I like melee paladins but my main gripe on them now is that with retaliate, the 5 sec duration on morph is way too short even with short cooldown on dragonform oath thing, it's just REALLY TEDIOUS and annoying made me switch to hammertime I'm not a fan of plague or resurrect but whatever. the hoplites dropped my framerate for some reason

also, deva king is sort of shitty for the casters, it's like they get no lvl 24 skill, pretty lame


I really hate assassin's melee right now, naginata is just OpieOP and claws don,t have any aoe at all except for the shitty nova from batstrike and now they have noctule(does barrier strike even do aoe? it's barely noticable)

I'd like a weapon damage version of old charge strikes like, three charges and it unleashes a ton of damage dealing stuff (novas of knives or bats or whatever but really powerful) like batstrike but no charm or summon, just big multi hitting stuff so it's worth charging it up with the bad animation time.

do people still play twin fangs anymore? doubt there is a point.

throwing,traps,mana, seems fine, I still think shuriken flurry does trash damage but whatever, I sort of like the obliteration skill but it's bad at level 1, I would have made it level 6 or something( so you can kill stuff to create corpses)


new amazon tree is cool but it's garbage, I'd prefer it being entirely melee(no spell), magnetic field is awful, feels like it doesn't even work, everything else feels bad because sceptres suck.

speaking of amazon, I still think spears need a rework, I don't like how you need fury for the great hunt, I've always wanted to make a build using that great hunt spirit spear or however it was called in earlier versions but it was always bad

sounds like you need to introduce a morph for amazons :^) that way people can use spears without taking eight years to attack and the zerae tree needs major work, in fact, an entire rework along with items related to it


I think unholy melee paladin might need some work on the skills like how blood thorns is never used and such


I would probably change some sorc spells that leave undesired like thunderstone(sound = kill) tempest and forked lightning that do no damage early(except thunderstone) even with maxed energy carpet of spiders and also familiar.


I agree with werewolf druid, I'd like twister claw if it was like claw tornado, in fact, I'd like claw tornado with self synergy that adds tornados(as long as the tornado also hits the target you hit initially) and such, not a BIG fan of the mana pulse and mana drain thing but it's ok.I don't like harbinger with no cooldown(well even with cooldown) it feels likeluster, feed the pack is just a better circle of life and the reanimates don't do much either way except tank I guess

as iwansquall said, might as well use aegipan RW

I also hate how druids NEED goodberries to be not squishy, they're pretty much forced to smax. that could definitely use a rework right there boyz


haven't tried sorceress melee tree, always hated sorc melee anyway.

necromancers.
first skill is strange to use and impossible to aim in a way, hardly viable even with broken damage.(not very fun either)

funeral pyre is cool I guess


not a big fan of minion using spells and poison in general either so I'll stop there

summoner still boring to me.


maybe new lower level runewords(under level 100) and buffs to old runewords that are outdated in power might be cool too, so many runes yet no runewords worth it(well some are, the rest are trashtier)

I think that wraps it up.

also, windform is meh




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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by kakaraposa on Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:44 pm

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL ur charnames made my day

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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by Metalistas on Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:09 pm

My impression about these impressions - meh.

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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by GregMXL on Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:19 pm

Why didn't you just ask to be on the alpha team?

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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by sirus628 on Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:32 pm

@Metalistas wrote:My impression about these impressions - meh.

My impression about your impression of these impressions - meehhhhhhhhhh

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