Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by Clariska on Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:44 pm

@GregMXL wrote:Hmm...Taking care of and fixing an entire forum and updating the realm, managing forum and realm gold, keeping Median XL(the absolute best Diablo mod and arguably the best mod period) going for the past 3 years with brand new characters, skills, trees and builds, ubers, items, lore. Can we give him just a little bit of a break here? Lol  One guy says Wolf sucks, the other says he's insane end game. StormZon sucks but wait...she is awesome too. How can one react to seeing confusing feedback here?

+1000.The biggest problems of the human race are that we are afraid of changes thus people qq over stuff that Marco will balance in future updates.I personally don't find any problem with this mod as i play for fun.I could't care less how stronk i become.Only thing that kinda bothers me are im having problems on realm with random dc's and lag BUT that's how technology works.Not even worthy to qq over.
Guys get off your high horses and lets just have fun.That's what gamings all about after all <3

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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by grimjerk on Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:35 pm

Yeah, I haven't been able to play the new patch so the only thing I can speak to is that people should be a little nicer to a guy that devotes god knows how many hours to helping keep their asses entertained. Sheesh. Not to say that well constructed specific criticism isn't useful, but low level testing really isn't useful when it is so freaking low level. Even if a skill isn't that great early on, there are still plenty of other skills that are time tested and reliable that can get a player past the hump.

One point that Iwan raised I can comment on, is about the new Barb Whirlwind clone. The problem with MXLU and WW clones is the knockback bug which Marco can do nothing about. Even then, on realm it should be merely an annoyance.

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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by GregMXL on Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:38 pm

@Clariska: Have a cookie and well said.

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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by wow123400 on Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:39 pm

Agreed part: Dragon knight might need a little bit more work on

Wondering part:Since when barb ww should go through packs?Even in clod ww does not go pass cows,what kind damage can that do?ww is like another way of multi hitting.....at least it seems like,and it depends on how fast your weapon is(that's still from clod not sure about median),that's why I am just wondering

Everything starts with trouble and will end with joy if ppl keep working on it with a good mind Very Happy

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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by frorg on Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:56 pm

First, my highest character is Lvl 48 and I tested builds from lvl 1-48 with every character, reskilling and switching items over 50 times and compared the gameplay for Hatred (or, like the Werewolf, just in Cold Plains because I couldn't stand the poor wolf anymore, I was so sorry for his skillset and his playstyle that I buried him and skilled back to his bigger brother, the Treewarden, who can make everything better in Hatred than WW ever could)  Crying or Very sad.
And why the hell is he limited to swords only? And why are so many swords Barbarian only then, especially in early game = Hatred, 99% of all unique swords I found are Barb only?  DOH!
Oh, and throwing daggers like Ironsleet don't count for Trap Rat even when they have normal attack damage?
I am not interested on how a build is in lategame, I test the early game because I start a new character each time I finish one so don't come me with "test it with lvl 120 and full SU gear!!".
If a build is not useable from the beginning it sucks, simple as that.
And I know that this mod is made in Marcos sparetime and I don't have to pay anything, so I'm not a paying customer but a player that started with D2 Classic release back in 2000.


@vincanthofred wrote:throwing is fine though.
Are we playing the same Barbarian?

I tested throwing at l18 with 2x Sterrenvogel T2 and 2x Rockshatter - the skills plain suck .........
Range = nearly melee range at the beginning, no AOE (Stampede compared to Iron Spiral or Thunderslam Hand), low damage and you can't even use Spirit Guide or any of the last 3 stances because they disable any ranged attacks.
I see no reason why I should ever use ranged over melee, I can deal so much more damage and tank better than with throwing axes.

For the druid with werewolf, a build that ENFORCES you to have a skill nearly hardcoded to LMB (because otherwise no mana for skills) so that you have to switch between teleport and tornado attack every few seconds, brilliant. And the tornado thing isn't even interesting, Fury in D2 was nice and funny, this is just boring. And not even something like rabbies while we have Acid stuff that would help with poison damage and give us a second damage source AND a useable AOE skill but no, nothing. Werewolf was one of my loved builds in D2, but this is pure crap and WW is so dead to me ...... Cookie monster.

Paladin is boring to play and the passive damage thingy is the same for both paths, looks boring, plays boring.

Assasin with dual claws is useless compared to Naginata, no skills use double claws but one and the one is useless.

Sorc has the most versatile builds and different playstyles, but you can clearly see what are the most played characters from Marco and what are the abadoned ones  Nope 2.

Marco wrote:Giving feedback about level 24 skills at level 24 is almost like... Not sure if arrogant is the correct word
A skill you get at lvl 24 should be useable NOW, not later.
Everything else is bad game design.
And the werewolf build is available from lvl 2, so it has to be playable compared to the other builds at low level too.
It worked at D2 (and without that dumb "olololol here I enforce to use this mana getting skill because suck your mana for no reason") where you could just start with werewolf and be happy so don't say "oh no, endgame build only!!".


Last edited by frorg on Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:42 pm; edited 4 times in total

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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by archon256 on Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:28 pm

@frorg wrote:
@vincanthofred wrote:throwing is fine though.
Are we playing the same Barbarian?

I tested throwing at l18 with 2x Sterrenvogel T2 and 2x Rockshatter - the skills plain suck .........
Range = nearly melee range at the beginning, no AOE (Stampede compared to Iron Spiral or Thunderslam Hand), low damage and you can't even use Spirit Guide or any of the last 3 stances because they disable any ranged attacks.
I see no reason why I should ever use ranged over melee, I can deal so much more damage and tank better than with throwing axes.
Stampede's AoE increases with levels. Late-game you can hit the entire screen for 3/2x Snake Stance poison damage without having to get into melee range of something. Thunderslam and EQ can spread poison that far, but they have lower WDM and need you to melee monsters for it.

Rebound and Overkill are pretty good multihitting skills.
Only real shitty skill of the tree is Bear Claw, but even that lets you permastun elites. Just need some +skills to raise the range.

You can't judge the whole build just by testing at level 18.  Rolling Eyes All you can say is "these skills suck early game", which is sadly true.

you can't even use Spirit Guide or any of the last 3 stances because they disable any ranged attacks.
Wait, what? Only Bear stance disables ranged attacks. Everything else works.

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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by frorg on Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:34 pm

@archon256 wrote:Stampede's AoE increases with levels. Late-game you can hit the entire screen for 3/2x Snake Stance poison damage without having to get into melee range of something.
I don't get to lategame with throwing weapons, I would have to reskill in lategame = throw builds are useless in early game = Throwing sucks. At least for me because I only care about builds that work from the beginning.
Same for werewolf, I reskilled, gave him a unique sword that's not Barb only (found one, surprisingly ...) and tested him for 1 Minute on Cold Plains until I began to cry and got back to Treewarden in no time. Or poison. Or summoner. Or anything else but Werewolf.

@archon256 wrote:Rebound and Overkill are pretty good multihitting skills.
Rebound needs a wall = no wall no damage.
And Overkill is a lvl 24 skill, you have no AOE till lvl 24 = useless for me.

@archon256 wrote:You can't judge the whole build just by testing at level 18.  Rolling Eyes All you can say is "these skills suck early game", which is sadly true.
True, I made that clear with an edit at the start of my post.

Wait, what? Only Bear stance disables ranged attacks. Everything else works.
Fortress = "Only allows the use of melee".

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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by archon256 on Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:50 pm

I don't get to lategame with throwing weapons, I would have to reskill in lategame = throw builds are useless in early game = Throwing sucks. At least for me because I only care about builds that work from the beginning.
You can easily get to lategame with throwing weapons. It's just that melee is stronger early on. Rebound and Overkill are just fine from the moment you get them. Rebound needs a wall or an obstacle to trigger. There's plenty of those even in open maps. In the worst case you can just use Overkill.

I'd support a buff to Bear Claw and Stampede for the early game, but even that isn't a must.

Fortress = "Only allows the use of melee".
Correct, I was only referring to the stuff you mentioned here:

Spirit Guide or any of the last 3 stances because they disable any ranged attacks.
That isn't enough of a reason to not spec into a ranged build, IMO. A build that maxes Fortress is a separate build on its own, and a melee build that uses 1pt Fortress to hit things at range every 7 seconds isn't going to be significantly better or worse than a ranged one late-game.

See, if you had said "Ranged barb builds are bad in the early game" then I'd agree with you. But saying they're only good in the late game isn't true at all. They just have a small hiccup before you get to level 12 for Rebound.

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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by frorg on Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:17 pm

@archon256 wrote:Rebound and Overkill are just fine from the moment you get them.
Tried throwing barb with lvl 18, tested every skill, they suck, switched back to melee.

@archon256 wrote:That isn't enough of a reason to not spec into a ranged build, IMO.
That maybe not but it makes no sense why those skills should disable ranged attacks. For what reason?

@archon256 wrote:See, if you had said "Ranged barb builds are bad in the early game" then I'd agree with you.
Ranged barbs suck in early game.

@archon256 wrote:They just have a small hiccup before you get to level 12 for Rebound.
They even have a "hiccup" with lvl 18 and 2x high damage throwing weapons + every armor piece a unique with %ED / CB / Min+Maxdamage etc.
I muled some gear from my other chars over to my barb and throwed axes, it sucked, switched back to melee and had much more defense and higher damage and way way bigger AOE.
Killspeed 10x as meele compared to ranged barb in early game = Ranged barb is useless for me.
Mmm, Tasty

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Re: Iwansquall's First Impressions x7 for MedianXL XV low level singleplayer.

Post by archon256 on Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:31 pm

That maybe not but it makes no sense why those skills should disable ranged attacks. For what reason?
Bear Stance was intended as a way to give melee characters a way to get super tanky at the cost of losing an offensive stance and the ability to use ranged skills. Being a ranged character in MXL is hugely beneficial.

Fortress blocks out ranged skills because that's a way of giving it a timer separate from the other timers. It's not so much that Fortress has to block ranged skills for balance (although max Fortress + throw skills would probably be very strong), and more that it has to block itself out. By putting it on a separate timer (that also happens to block other ranged skills) it allows a Fortress barb to be able to cast Thunderslam and Fortress independent of each other. And since the minimum timer on Fortress is 3 secs it leads to interesting gameplay where you cast Thunderslam and stun everything, then cast Fortress, then switch to a melee skill and attack for a bit, and then go back to Thunderslam etc.


Killspeed 10x as meele compared to ranged barb.
Even I don't think all builds need to kill as fast as each other at that point of the game (even though I was the one heavily requesting buffs to various skills during the early game when I was Alpha testing the XV patch). All that matters is whether you're able to kill monsters 'reasonably' fast enough to keep leveling. If a build couldn't complete /players1 A1 without having to twink or farm Cave Snappers to make Honorifics, for example, that would raise alarm bells in my head. But I don't think the throw barb is anywhere near that.

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