Level Challenge II, Maximum Level 90

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Level Challenge II, Maximum Level 90

Post by bloodsuckern on Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:25 am

I instantly die at max res and 134k defense from getting hit by any single amount of spells that the baal fuckboy helpers or w/e their names are.
How are you supposed to play melee holy pala again?

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Re: Level Challenge II, Maximum Level 90

Post by aknazer on Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:02 am

Well for starters you likely don't have enough resist. Then your second issue is you are trying to tank it all and not do hit and run attacks. Or you could set up for even more max resist with some absorb and likely be able to tank most/all of it. In short you need to cuss less and gitgud.

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Re: Level Challenge II, Maximum Level 90

Post by bloodsuckern on Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:07 am

How come I deal no more damage when swinging my hammer at 1200 strength than at 500?
there's barely any difference
Should I swap all diamonds to more Max res items when the wizards have 250% elemental pierce to begin with?
Do you stack hundreds of 15% attack speed runes to get damage?
Is damage given by 200-500 elemental armor pieces?
What is damage if not massive amounts of strength.
Will there ever be a proper holy guide that actually lists items?

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Re: Level Challenge II, Maximum Level 90

Post by Daimoth on Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:33 am

The common approach is to lure the guards away a few at a time then chip away at Tal Rasha. You'll die a bit.

Bear in mind that enemies in challenges and ubers are intentionally overpowered; overcoming a seemingly impossible challenge is the whole point. I'll probably eat these words next time I'm raging and cursing MarcoNecroX's name, but considering the reward is a permanent bonus I think the difficulty is largely justified.

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Re: Level Challenge II, Maximum Level 90

Post by aknazer on Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:11 am

1)  A lot of things are percentage based.  Thus if your weapon has low base damage you aren't going to see a huge increase in total damage.  An 800str increase is something like a 93% increase in weapon damage (could be a bit more or less depending on weapon).  So if the weapon only does 100 damage (as an example) it would now do 193.  And then if an ability does, say 1/2 weapon damage, you just went from 50 damage to 97 with that ability.  Note that this ignores whatever the small amount of damage increase is per point of str and only looks at the str% bonus on weapons

2)  They have 250% elemental pierce.  Terror has 50% pierce.  Thus there's 300% pierce before you start to be in the positives.  Easiest way to overcome this is to craft a pair of T6 honorific resist boots and gloves with 15x All resist, 6x fire/cold/lightning orbs.  Keep these boots and gloves for future ubers and by 120 you can finish up the rest of the resists. Max resist is 15x Resist all and 8x Fire/Cold/Light/Poison orbs, but this requires ~lvl115 to wear.  This gives you 155% resist/all per glove/boots before sockets.  Note that 155% is the max that can be added to an item before sockets and any orbs over that will increase the req lvl but not the resist added (ie, be wasted).

Once you have your boots and gloves you'll be at ~280% resist before gems.  So long as you have max sockets in all other slots (so T6 lvl gear) you will have 20 sockets to use for +max resists.  This lets you drop 7x max resist gems for two elements and 6x max resist gems for the third.  And that comes out to an extra 140% resist for two elements and 120% for the third.  If you still haven't hit 389% resist you could always use the shield, which gives 4 sockets for regular shields and 6 for special shields (special shields are bone and spiked).  Note that you don't need 87-89% max resist (and thus don't need max sockets), but if you're truly struggling then every bit helps.  But you DO need 375%+ resist (see #4 for a damage breakdown).

3)  I don't play a holy pally, I play a melee sorceress.  And no I don't mindlessly stack attack speed runes/jewels.  I look to not go over the various breakpoints (see attack speed calculator), and even then I don't worry about it till lvl120 and doing the harder ubers where I need to min/max.

4)  Not sure what you're asking here.  Your resists can go as low as -255 (possibly lower, but this is the lowest I've seen the character sheet report it).  To give an idea of what this means lets look at how much a person would take from 100 damage.  At 89% you would take 11.  At 75% resist you would take 25.  At 0 you would take 100.  At -100 you would take 200.  At -255 you would take 355 damage. Hopefully this both answers your question and highlights why you need to overcome their pierce to survive (11 damage taken vs 355 damage taken per 100 damage dealt is a rather large gap).

5)  You need to better understand attacks.  Damage is a combination of your strength, weapon, weapon's strength bonus (or dex bonus for dex based weapons), and the ability modifier*.  So if your ability has a 1/2 weapon damage modifier it is going to take all that other stuff and basically cut it in half (so all that strength bonus is only half as effective), while an ability that hits for 3/2 weapon damage is getting a 50% boost.  Oh yea, and you need to be able to actually hit things, which comes from your attack rating, and that is increased via dex.

*Note that there's even more that goes into weapon damage like elemental sources of damage, but I wanted to keep this relatively simple while illustrating it isn't just massive amounts of strength that determine damage.

6)  When someone who plays a holy pally feels like writing one.


Last edited by aknazer on Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:29 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Level Challenge II, Maximum Level 90

Post by aknazer on Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:25 am

@Daimoth wrote:The common approach is to lure the guards away a few at a time then chip away at Tal Rasha. You'll die a bit.

Bear in mind that enemies in challenges and ubers are intentionally overpowered; overcoming a seemingly impossible challenge is the whole point. I'll probably eat these words next time I'm raging and cursing MarcoNecroX's name, but considering the reward is a permanent bonus I think the difficulty is largely justified.

Once you know the mechanics you shouldn't really die.  Just do hit-and-run tactics.  

Here's a video.  While the gear is for a melee sorc and was filmed back in XIV, it goes over the crafted boots+gloves, you can see the max resists, watch the strat, and see how relatively little damage I take.  For those with less hp regen they might need to be a bit more conservative on when they run away and pot.

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Re: Level Challenge II, Maximum Level 90

Post by grimjerk on Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:49 am

@aknazer wrote:
@Daimoth wrote:The common approach is to lure the guards away a few at a time then chip away at Tal Rasha. You'll die a bit.

Bear in mind that enemies in challenges and ubers are intentionally overpowered; overcoming a seemingly impossible challenge is the whole point. I'll probably eat these words next time I'm raging and cursing MarcoNecroX's name, but considering the reward is a permanent bonus I think the difficulty is largely justified.

Once you know the mechanics you shouldn't really die.  Just do hit-and-run tactics.  

Here's a video.  While the gear is for a melee sorc and was filmed back in XIV, it goes over the crafted boots+gloves, you can see the max resists, watch the strat, and see how relatively little damage I take.  For those with less hp regen they might need to be a bit more conservative on when they run away and pot.

This. The mages strike a pose before they cast. You can do the challenge at level 90 so you will have access to some decent poison damage (iirc) so you may want to throw some +%Poison Damage, -%Enemy Poison Resist and some +%Poison Duration into the mix. Run up, hit, run back, let poison do its thing, repeat.


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Re: Level Challenge II, Maximum Level 90

Post by Daimoth on Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:33 pm

Likely a better approach, but tbh I generally don't have patience enough to really scrutinize/twink gear that I'll likely replace ten or so levels later.

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Re: Level Challenge II, Maximum Level 90

Post by aknazer on Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:56 am

@Daimoth wrote:Likely a better approach, but tbh I generally don't have patience enough to really scrutinize/twink gear that I'll likely replace ten or so levels later.

You aren't twinkling or throwing away any of the gear. You are moving around sockets and creating resist gear that you will use even at lvl120. I personally use the resist boots until mid120 uber so that I never have to worry about resists even in Destruction. Also both the gloves and gloves are used any time I need resist gear for an uber (maggot lair, quov tsin, etc).

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Re: Level Challenge II, Maximum Level 90

Post by Daimoth on Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:51 am

It's worth noting that I play sp so I can afford to hoard rewards from ubers and whatnot. As such my builds are usually already at 80+ res all the moment they enter destruction. It also helps that sacred uniques and sets tend to grant huge amounts of res all.

But you're right, alot of endgame stuff does necessitate res overflow gear.

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