[v6d] The Kickstarter Sin: The Untwinked Journey

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Re: [v6d] The Kickstarter Sin: The Untwinked Journey

Post by MarcoNecroX on Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:50 am

It's alright; as I said myself, having this uber in act 5 pretty much reduced all its difficulty given the stage of the game you're at when you can access it.

Just trying to make you take the "logical" route for analyzing uberquests and such, as I think such guides aimed for newbies is what we need (sadly that it is an assassin guide). My example was a simple "if you do X thing, bad Y thing will happen, so don't do X" logic, which by the way a LOT of MXL players seem to leak. Basically, to induce players to use their damn brain when playing (my biggest dream yet).

~

Regarding Khalimgrad example, just by reading your edit I think you did indeed misunderstand it. Let me enlighten you with 'my' logic Razz

- You suggest using daystars
- Daystars have low health
- Zakarums use gift of inner fire ON KILL (like almost all zakarum monsters in the game, death projector, akarat, etc)
- Re: Daystars have low health
---> Daystars die and avatar heals
Conclusion: don't use daystars.

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Re: [v6d] The Kickstarter Sin: The Untwinked Journey

Post by BassToMouth on Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:22 am

If you watch how I do it in the video its a bit different:

- I suggest summoning daystars (you get 4 at the start)
- I am undergeared, meaning even a single hit may put me into HR and subsequent attacks will kill me. (Very low block, no charms, tier 6 gear, abandon crafted gear that only used up around 5-6 to make)
- These daystars may have low hp but its enough for them to just soak ONE hit so I can kill the ethereals before they kill me. I do not have edyrems yet and since logically the player SHOULD have daystars from doing the minigames, I suggest using it.
-Daystars die, healing enemies a bit, but that buys me enough time to kill them.
-Success as shown in video.

I've yet to see too many other guides who don't assume the player has every single perfect and trophied charm in the game + several SUs. If you actually watch the video, I show my inventory before every kill, revealing just how undergeared I am.

The reason I have not written such a guide for another character is because from my own theorycrafting and testing, sins and barbs (and to an extent javzons), because the game is DESIGNED to let these classes deal damage without having key pieces of equipment. I did not write one up for a barb or zon because they already exist on the forum. However the other sin guides tell you to have every SU in the game and tell you you can rape with those items. Any new player can tell you that you can make even the most obscure character work to an extent with that kind of gear... If you want people to play the other classes perhaps you should look into improving them so they can also do ubers without several SUs and charms.

I haven't tested druids extensively, however I simply don't see how they can reach the killing speed AND versatility of a rainbow damage sin. Of course I'd love to be proven wrong and would like to see someone post a druid guide beating these ubers with ONLY the beginning class charm and level challenge charms and 0 SU or sets.
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Re: [v6d] The Kickstarter Sin: The Untwinked Journey

Post by vadust on Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:34 am

Then try bow druid with low rws and tu6 with many ctc arrow+spore shot you will win.

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Re: [v6d] The Kickstarter Sin: The Untwinked Journey

Post by BassToMouth on Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:38 am

No shield makes that build extremely squishy. No rainbow damage means you are limited on what you can achieve. Strength based dps means you need dex to reach AR, which does NOTHING else for your char other than a bit of extra def (sins get block with dex).

Which now means you need ITD if you want to ignore dex.

Should I continue?
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Re: [v6d] The Kickstarter Sin: The Untwinked Journey

Post by MarcoNecroX on Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:56 am

@BassToMouth wrote:No shield makes that build extremely squishy. No rainbow damage means you are limited on what you can achieve. Strength based dps means you need dex to reach AR, which does NOTHING else for your char other than a bit of extra def (sins get block with dex).

Which now means you need ITD if you want to ignore dex.

Should I continue?


It is amusing to see how easily people limit themselves.
Actually all the factors you mentioned can be completely bypassed,
by nothing else than a few gear checks, here let me give you a lesson
on why a druid could be potentially worse than an assassin;

- no 4s timered teleport with long stun
- +70% avoid making those 'instagibs' 3/4 less effective
- no godberry dependancy


here gear check won't do the trick, it is when tactics come in.
if you can dodge and use skills wisely, you can bypass this stage
and have any character in the game succeed.

Actually, by watching how people fail at bypassing this second stage
of "limitations" , it gives you enough information to recognize when a
player is what people call a "pro".

That's why there are so many guides with the top expensive SSSU's,
it shows how people are trying to bypass what you call a limitation,
but they won't even get close to bypass what "I" call a limitation, hence
why these guides are nothing more than... waysin guides.



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Re: [v6d] The Kickstarter Sin: The Untwinked Journey

Post by BassToMouth on Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:05 am

Hm, then I would like to see a video of you using such "tactics" and overcoming the limitations of 78781231 speeding projectiles in fautz with a bow druid with very few charms and maybe 1-2 SU max equipped.

Or perhaps in correlation with my guide, you can do sewers so we can compare the survivability/killspeed of a waysin versus a druid (in which niether are allowed to have SUs/sets or too many charms).
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Re: [v6d] The Kickstarter Sin: The Untwinked Journey

Post by vadust on Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:18 am

So you want to say that sin is a best character that req a nerf to become = druid im right?

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Re: [v6d] The Kickstarter Sin: The Untwinked Journey

Post by BassToMouth on Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:22 am

You are wrong. Despite nerfs sin is still one of the best characters to play with AND without gear. Druid needs a buff.
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Re: [v6d] The Kickstarter Sin: The Untwinked Journey

Post by vadust on Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:28 am

Imo caster/bow/tr druid are fine and anyone who played with them more then just few times will agree. Sins advantage comes only from blink, remove stun from it then they will have hard time because most of rambo play styles will be ruined. But after that noobs wiil qq and ask it back again because they think it's impossible. Honesty i dislike only dual conversion that barbs got and power of some light multihit spells/oskill( bay thunderstone, hello flamestrike).
Yes tw druid suck.

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Re: [v6d] The Kickstarter Sin: The Untwinked Journey

Post by MarcoNecroX on Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:32 am

@BassToMouth wrote:Hm, then I would like to see a video of you using such "tactics" and overcoming the limitations of 78781231 speeding projectiles in fautz with a bow druid with very few charms and maybe 1-2 SU max equipped.

Or perhaps in correlation with my guide, you can do sewers so we can compare the survivability/killspeed of a waysin versus a druid (in which niether are allowed to have SUs/sets or too many charms).

That's the cheapest argument I've seen in a while.
I could mimic you by saying "prove <random class> stronger than assassin by doing <random level> with no <random item> and exactly <random quantity> charms, no more no less for no reason". I'm not limited to getting 'only 2 charms' so why are you suggesting that I should?

I feel you're somehow trying to proove this build being strong because you can do some ubers with no gear. WELCOME TO MEDIAN XL. It has been like this for years. And by the way you are doing it wrong, wychwind fits this 'badass playstyle' way better, I was able to do all summoning ubers with it (incl. judgement day, no laz) with a t1 magic knife and tu3 chain mail (nothing else, literally). But hey WW gives -50%DR so why not limit ourselves once again and go for the autoaimed offscreen ATMG?

Don't take it bad, I can't blame you, but you're just one more in the pool. Just check the guides posted here or go to general forum and see how every "I'm having problem at this uber" thread gets solved by a "make an ATMG/broadside assassin" reply.

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