The Best Farming Char (Ultimative v 6d)

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Re: The Best Farming Char (Ultimative v 6d)

Post by Homm on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:18 am

i think 1/3 damage modifier make poison bad. And with 800% damage and crushing blow i don't know,maybe it's like atmg,it hit so much that it only need crushing blow. Although,i love poison . Best element for me, so i'll stick with pounce(zon) and my wonderful melee barb

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Re: The Best Farming Char (Ultimative v 6d)

Post by MUS01 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:21 am

@Marco: IF the recipes are stupid, WHY NOT SIMPLY CHANGE THEM?

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Re: The Best Farming Char (Ultimative v 6d)

Post by BassToMouth on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:22 am

@MarcoNecroX wrote:
It does 1/3 WDM rapidly so poison wouldn't be so great since it needs frames to tick. Although with the amount of timestrikes being procced 3/2 poison might not be a bad idea... But from the looks of it, stuff is dying too quickly anyway for poison to start ticking.

... 1 frame delay makes poison bad? Neutral

Says in the LFAQ that poison that doesn't tick for more than 1 frame to kill their target won't trigger on kill procs =/ And time wave is on kill so, if your poison is killing stuff at 1 frame it won't trigger as much CTC on kill? Tbh I'm not sure it even matters since time strike has ND but if we're theorycrafting with efficiency in mind its better to ignore poison?

I'm just going off the assumption that skysiege hits every frame (does it?) :S

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Re: The Best Farming Char (Ultimative v 6d)

Post by MarcoNecroX on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:45 am

@BassToMouth wrote:Says in the LFAQ that poison that doesn't tick for more than 1 frame to kill their target won't trigger on kill procs =/ And time wave is on kill so, if your poison is killing stuff at 1 frame it won't trigger as much CTC on kill? Tbh I'm not sure it even matters since time strike has ND but if we're theorycrafting with efficiency in mind its better to ignore poison?

I'm just going off the assumption that skysiege hits every frame (does it?) :S

if we are theorycrafting with efficiency;
poison damage cap: 83k / frame - 166k with -100% enemy poison res

to reach such damage we need a skill that deals 2 million poison damage per second.
there is no skill that even comes CLOSE to that. Well, since this is theory let's suppose
we do indeed have such damage ; after dest blood moor you will HARDLY find a monster with
less than 166k hp.

so no, the "first frame won't proc on kill" won't change your life.

@MUS01 wrote:@Marco: IF the recipes are stupid, WHY NOT SIMPLY CHANGE THEM?

Because NOPE Nope

@Homm wrote:i think 1/3 damage modifier make poison bad. And with 800% damage and crushing blow i don't know,maybe it's like atmg,it hit so much that it only need crushing blow. Although,i love poison . Best element for me, so i'll stick with pounce(zon) and my wonderful melee barb

It depends.
1/3 makes all elements bad, the only difference is, due to multihits most of the elements recover their "goodness".

If you have an attack with a large difference between min/max poison damage (snake stance was 1:2 iirc) then poison also benefits from multihit. Every frame the damage is rolled again and everytime this roll is higher than the other one, it will override it.

In other words, we could say that poison will always do it's max damage, making it a considerably stronger too.

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Re: The Best Farming Char (Ultimative v 6d)

Post by BassToMouth on Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:04 am

@MarcoNecroX wrote:
if we are theorycrafting with efficiency;
poison damage cap: 83k / frame - 166k with -100% enemy poison res

to reach such damage we need a skill that deals 2 million poison damage per second.
there is no skill that even comes CLOSE to that. Well, since this is theory let's suppose
we do indeed have such damage ; after dest blood moor you will HARDLY find a monster with
less than 166k hp.

so no, the "first frame won't proc on kill" won't change your life.

Hm, I'll try to explain with imaginary numbers on what I was thinking. Let's say a monster has 500 hp and we do 50-100 poison damage per frame. We attack a few times and deal total 450 non-poison damage, the poison damage ticks and then kills the monster, denying our on kill CTC since it only ticked for 1 frame, seeing as how skysiege damages every frame (again, assumption that skysiege damage hits every frame since you didnt deny it). I don't think it will happen every time, since if we tick like 50 60 100 70 50 poison, 100 poison damage will tick for the last 2 frames. But in the case that this DOESN'T happen, it will get denied?

This is what I was meaning, not the poison 1 shotting the monster by itself.

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Re: The Best Farming Char (Ultimative v 6d)

Post by MarcoNecroX on Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:11 am

You are wrong, how can a 100dps poison skill kill a monster with 50 hp, if each frame does 4 damage? (100/25)

Also there is the problem "imaginary" numbers. In reality, you will most likely never kill a monster in the first frame. Like I said, most monsters in destruction and specifically uber monsters have over 300k hp. As a reference, a monster in vizjun has 1 million.


I do get what you're trying to prove, I'm just telling you it won't happen.


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Re: The Best Farming Char (Ultimative v 6d)

Post by iwansquall on Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:13 am

I think for 1frame poison problem, you will only need to worried if is POISON SPELL.

As long as it is WDM, we dont care how much poison DPS is. The more the better.

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Re: The Best Farming Char (Ultimative v 6d)

Post by MarcoNecroX on Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:18 am

I think for 1frame poison problem, you will only need to worried if is POISON SPELL.

Not even so. High character maxed poison spells usually have 100k-300k poison damage per second. That isn't even close to 2 million Wink

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Re: The Best Farming Char (Ultimative v 6d)

Post by BassToMouth on Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:34 am

@MarcoNecroX wrote:You are wrong, how can a 100dps poison skill kill a monster with 50 hp, if each frame does 4 damage? (100/25)

I said 50-100 per frame (so like 1250-2500 per sec). I did write per sec at first, but quickly edited because I realized that made NO sense at all lol

The actual damage is irrelevant since my basic point is that, if a new poison tick is applied on the last frame before a monster dies, and this monster gets killed by this poison tick, we don't get on kill CTC.

I do think you're right though, in practical terms this doesn't really mean anything since one or two denied CTCs shouldn't make too much difference.


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Re: The Best Farming Char (Ultimative v 6d)

Post by MarcoNecroX on Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:39 am

in practical terms

Exactly, in practice it means NOTHING.

Thats somehow what LFAQ try to do. They will add some completely irrelevant info (like this) but it's to give you the learning that this game is dumbly coded and has a lot of randomness in many events... you get to know even more when code editing or modding, it's just lol Razz

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